Dog Channel / Dogs in the News / Yips and Yaps / Pit Bull ban? / Latest Posts

RE: Pit Bull ban?

staffordmom — Sun, 28 Sep 2008 20:56:51 GMT

I am againstbanning Pit Bulls or any other breed. And it will not stop at Pit Bulls; they will continue to add more and more breeds. I have met some very sweet Pit Bulls and I own a Staffordshire Bull Terrier which they always include along with Pit Bulls and he is the sweetest most trustworthy dog around people ever. He would never bite anyone.

staffordmom

RE: Pit Bull ban?

Collie/GSD/Sheltie/Corgi/Russell_luvr — Fri, 26 Sep 2008 17:32:09 GMT

Most people don't know the difference.

I have a breed that is pretty commonly labeled as "bad" too. Not so much anymore, but I have gotten a few comments about my German Shepherd like "You should do away with her." and "All German Shepherds should be banned".

RE: Pit Bull ban?

coniferhedges — Fri, 26 Sep 2008 15:28:04 GMT

What about the breeds that are often mistaken for a pit bull? The AM Stafs, etc. Or boxer mixes? Would you ban them also? Would you know the difference?

I also own a breed that has a bad rap, but they are the best dogs ever. People just need to be more responsible. Gone is the day of letting your dog run loose.

RE: Pit Bull ban?

annielovesmama — Sun, 07 Sep 2008 11:45:07 GMT

wow, im so pleased that everybody is likeing this fourm and people are still poasting on it! And its a lively discusin, cuz i can tell ya the whole reason i dont go on the fourm in a while was because of certing reasons, but it seems resolved!

RE: Pit Bull ban?

outcast13 — Sun, 07 Sep 2008 09:09:41 GMT

AshleyC (9/6/2008)

There needs to be something put up to slow down the breeding of these dogs

This I agree with. There are way to many breeders of pits.

RE: Pit Bull ban?

AshleyC — Sat, 06 Sep 2008 17:27:34 GMT

A woman that I work with owns a Pit Bull. She told me she loves him and thinks he is the sweetest dog in the world. She's had him for several years and has never had no problem with him. She's stood up for Pit Bulls time and time again. Until....

... about a year ago she came up to me and to me that they were on a walk together. And, as they past this strange man and... her dog jumped on him growling and bit him... breaking the skin. She was lucky... the guy was very understanding... he could have sued and had the dog put down.

She was shocked.... she told me the man did nothing to entice the dog in any way!

I've not voted on the Poll one way, or another... but I think something should be done about these dogs. I've had that personal experience in my life and so many times you hear on the news about Pit Bulls injuring and even killing children. How many times do you hear about other dogs doing such things?

And another thing.... there has got to be something done with just the fact... I don't know about everywhere, but around here(down south) you see pit bulls all over the place! People seem to have the idea that if you have a pit bull it makes you macho and tough! There needs to be something put up to slow down the breeding of these dogs and make it harder for these type of people to get.... I mean I've had children at the school that I work at be like "I have a pit bull!" In an arrogant sort of way... like look I'm tough! It is those kind of families that pulls out the fighting nature of these dogs.

My friend thought her dog was the sweetest dog she's ever had. She didn't get rid of the dog... but, she now has a very new respect for him and is very careful on any walks, or around any strangers.

I can't say ban them! But, there needs to be some sort of education out there for people to realize these dogs can be problems if not trained and raised properly. And, I'm sorry there is a difference. I don't know how many breeds of dogs you've been around but they are all different. I have shelties, they love to run and herd things that is their nature. I'm not saying they have to be different in a bad sort of way... but without the proper training and guidance... Have you guys ever watched Ceasar Millan? He loves the dogs, but he also stresses they have got to be in the right type of homes.

RE: Pit Bull ban?

Collie/GSD/Sheltie/Corgi/Russell_luvr — Sat, 06 Sep 2008 11:37:13 GMT

bjg (9/5/2008)

Let me first start by stating that I am very passionate about this topic. It is not only for the Pit Bull, but any breed. They all have their strengths and weaknesses. My husband and I are both trainers and find the good in every dog. Neither of us believe in the "banning" of any breeds. With that being said, let me just say, that I believe in educating people about the differentbreeds, and it is very important to be honest with ones self to be able to make a good decision in picking out a dog.. So many times, people choose breeds based on the latest fad, or the movie, or t.v. show that a certain breed was on, or my personal favorite...it's cute. These are not good reasons for picking certain breeds. I would also like to go on record to those who think that the "pit bulls", or Staffordshire terriers are "mean, or evil", that at least one was not. The little Rascal's "Petey" was a staffordshire terrier. The AKCstates these dogs are good family dogs, andranks them in the top 10 for family dogs. Someone asked what breeds are next...I am here to tellyou, it will be any breed thatthe lawmakers feel are dangerous.I have a very "drivey" GSD, and partcipate in Schutzhund with my dog.My dog in the "wrong" hands, could be a very dangerous dog. That is notthe dog's fault, but the fault of the person that owns oris handling the dog. I know that I have rambled on, and believe me, I could go on forever regarding this subject, so I do apologize, but Idon't think that the anyone has the right to decide what kind of dog you should have.

I completely agree.

RE: Pit Bull ban?

caninejan — Sat, 06 Sep 2008 11:31:23 GMT

bjg (9/5/2008)

Let me first start by stating that I am very passionate about this topic. It is not only for the Pit Bull, but any breed. They all have their strengths and weaknesses. My husband and I are both trainers and find the good in every dog. Neither of us believe in the "banning" of any breeds. With that being said, let me just say, that I believe in educating people about the different breeds, and it is very important to be honest with ones self to be able to make a good decision in picking out a dog.. So many times, people choose breeds based on the latest fad, or the movie, or t.v. show that a certain breed was on, or my personal favorite...it's cute. These are not good reasons for picking certain breeds. I would also like to go on record to those who think that the "pit bulls", or Staffordshire terriers are "mean, or evil", that at least one was not. The little Rascal's "Petey" was a staffordshire terrier. The AKC states these dogs are good family dogs, and ranks them in the top 10 for family dogs. Someone asked what breeds are next...I am here to tell you, it will be any breed that the lawmakers feel are dangerous. I have a very "drivey" GSD, and partcipate in Schutzhund with my dog. My dog in the "wrong" hands, could be a very dangerous dog. That is not the dog's fault, but the fault of the person that owns or is handling the dog. I know that I have rambled on, and believe me, I could go on forever regarding this subject, so I do apologize, but I don't think that the anyone has the right to decide what kind of dog you should have.

I know exactly what you mean!! I have a HUGE (almost) 11 month old Rottweiler. He's been in training for obedience since 4 months of age and has been very heavily socialized. He begins protection training in the fall for his second leg of Schutzhund training. In the wrong hands, absolutely...your dog, mine and many others would be a menace to society. Nice to hear from someone like you, by the way!

RE: Pit Bull ban?

bjg — Fri, 05 Sep 2008 18:26:48 GMT

Let me first start by stating that I am very passionate about this topic. It is not only for the Pit Bull, but any breed. They all have their strengths and weaknesses. My husband and I are both trainers and find the good in every dog. Neither of us believe in the "banning" of any breeds. With that being said, let me just say, that I believe in educating people about the different breeds, and it is very important to be honest with ones self to be able to make a good decision in picking out a dog.. So many times, people choose breeds based on the latest fad, or the movie, or t.v. show that a certain breed was on, or my personal favorite...it's cute. These are not good reasons for picking certain breeds. I would also like to go on record to those who think that the "pit bulls", or Staffordshire terriers are "mean, or evil", that at least one was not. The little Rascal's "Petey" was a staffordshire terrier. The AKC states these dogs are good family dogs, and ranks them in the top 10 for family dogs. Someone asked what breeds are next...I am here to tell you, it will be any breed that the lawmakers feel are dangerous. I have a very "drivey" GSD, and partcipate in Schutzhund with my dog. My dog in the "wrong" hands, could be a very dangerous dog. That is not the dog's fault, but the fault of the person that owns or is handling the dog. I know that I have rambled on, and believe me, I could go on forever regarding this subject, so I do apologize, but I don't think that the anyone has the right to decide what kind of dog you should have.

RE: Pit Bull ban?

Collie/GSD/Sheltie/Corgi/Russell_luvr — Tue, 26 Aug 2008 08:01:50 GMT

[quote]yogi (8/25/2008)

This is a true story and maybe if more read it would be less inclined to look at the breed and more so at the owners.

Tahoe was a therapy dog and often paid visits to a certain little boy in a
children's hospital who was fighting leukemia. Tahoe usually visited on certain
days of the week. One morning the little boy asked his nurse if he could see
Tahoe that day. She told him it wasn't the day for his regular visit. The little
boy said "I know, but I really want to see him today. Please call and ask if he
can come see me." The nurse called the owner and asked if she was busy. Said for
some reason Tommy really wanted to see Tahoe today. The owner agreed and her and Tahoe went to see Tommy. Once there they walked into the room. Tahoe stopped and looked at Tommy who had tears in his eyes. Immediately Tahoe climbed up on the bed and gently laid down beside Tommy. Tommy wrapped his arms
around Tahoe and hugged him as tightly as he weakened state could. Tahoe laid
his head across Tonmmy's neck. A few moments later Tommy passed away with Tahoe in his arms.
Tahoe was a pit bull terrier. When they left the hospital the owner with tears in her eyes and Tahoe with his tail down and looking very sad. A lady across the lot yelled.. "GET THAT MONSTER OUT OF HER, THERE ARE KIDS HERE." The owner simply stopped, turned around and looked at the lady with tears in her eyes and said quietly. " I know, that is why we are here.[/quote]
That makes me cry. It's ironic that APBTs were once considered great family dogs and are now hated by many people.

RE: Pit Bull ban?

caninejan — Mon, 25 Aug 2008 22:12:58 GMT

yogi (8/25/2008)

GREAT story...and sadly, so true. If people would only open their eyes and hearts to the wonderful APBTs out there....oh, well....

RE: Pit Bull ban?

yogi — Mon, 25 Aug 2008 14:52:53 GMT

Here is another issue to consider, do you know how many ABPT's are in fact responsible for these alleged attacks where people claim it was a "pitbull" when in fact they could not identify a pitbull to save their lives. Even the ban in England was bogus as it turned out it was a Pit mix not a Pit Bull that caused the current ban.
I would post the link to the Pit bull test but this site does not seem to permit links.

RE: Pit Bull ban?

yogi — Mon, 25 Aug 2008 13:54:52 GMT

RE: Pit Bull ban?

caninejan — Fri, 15 Aug 2008 18:57:37 GMT

maximus (8/13/2008)

Any dog can be made to behave badly in the hands of moronic owners. When discovered those owners should be banned from owning dogs. Breed Specific Legislation aimed at any breed is usually misdirected to punish a breed for the deed of the owner and of a particular dog. When a person does something heinous we do not punish all humans do we? Nope, we single out that person for punishment. It should be the same with dogs. BSL is racism.

Check out this poll also.

Good topic.

100% in agreement with you on this point!!!!!

RE: Pit Bull ban?

AnimalLover — Fri, 15 Aug 2008 16:32:05 GMT

I know that some breeds are more predisposed to aggressive behavior like pit bulls, but I also know that it is also how the animal is raised. Every animal is different just like every person is different. Like the old saying goes "You can't judge a book by the cover." Well you can't judge a dog by just it's breed.

RE: Pit Bull ban?

Collie/GSD/Sheltie/Corgi/Russell_luvr — Wed, 13 Aug 2008 14:28:37 GMT

[quote]maximus (8/13/2008)

Something needs to be clarified here. The American Pit Bull Terrier as a pure breed registered by the United Kennel Club is in most cases mistaken for other high performance mixed breed dogs used in pit fighting. A true APBT is not human aggressive. Acceptance of strangers and handling by others are a breed trait of the APBT - that is why so many of them are stolen each year.

Any dog can be made to behave badly in the hands of moronic owners. When discovered those owners should be banned from owning dogs. Breed Specific Legislation aimed at any breed is usually misdirected to punish a breed for the deed of the owner and of a particular dog. When a person does something heinous we do not punish all humans do we? Nope, we single out that person for punishment. It should be the same with dogs. BSL is racism.

Check out this poll also.

Good topic.[/quote]

True, and my feelings exactly.
Now let me see, what was I going to say...
Oh yeah, I read something yesterday where the news reported a Pit Bull attack at a zoo and guess what? It was actually a tiger!!!!!!!! The news people were told that by witnesses the day after they reported it. How can you confuse a tiger with a Pit Bull? I'm telling you, the news is trying to make things appear as they aren't.

RE: Pit Bull ban?

maximus — Wed, 13 Aug 2008 05:28:24 GMT

Check out this poll also.

Good topic.

RE: Pit Bull ban?

Collie/GSD/Sheltie/Corgi/Russell_luvr — Sat, 02 Aug 2008 11:06:01 GMT

Punish the DEED, not the BREED.
I voted no of course. What other way is there to vote? I've done my research, and met several Pit Bulls, Dobies, Rotties, and the like. No one of those dogs showed a bit of aggression. Now, I HAVE met aggressive Labs (one made my GERMAN SHEPHERD back down), Chihuahuas, and breeds like that, but I still love those breeds with all my heart. It's the way the owner raised the dog, not the dog.
Also, the news is very very biased and will usually only report the stories about Pit Bull attacks and often lies about the breed or claims that it is a Pit Bull before they actually know what the dog is. Why? Scary stories sell, and Pit Bulls LOOK scary. Hardly ever does the news report a feel-good story. Not only that, but there are 25 different and distinct breeds that are easily mistaken for Pit Bulls. Anybody notice that German Shepherds were once in the position that Pit Bulls are in now? And so were several other breeds. THEY KEEP SWITCHING BREEDS!! What do they want to do? Kill them all? I think that they do.
I've seen Pit Bulls serve as therapy dogs and service dogs and pass Canine Good Citizen tests.
Pit Bulls were originally bred to work on the farm, not fight. They were used for fighting later, and it is a terrible practice. However, many Pit Bulls were rescued from the michael vick case and only one of them showed aggression though they were all bred to/used for fighting.
Pit Bulls were considered the #1 family dog in the early 20th century. A Pit Bull mix named Captain Stubby was the first and most decorated war dog in history.
Pit Bulls, like all breeds, are not for everyone. They are extremely high energy (like a Jack Russel Terrier) and not all people can handle that. I have friends with Pit Bulls, and they are definitely not a breed for the couch potato. Pit Bulls have a tendency to be dog-aggressive, so socializing them at a young age is a must.

thetruthaboutpitbulls.com

RE: Pit Bull ban?

Annabanana — Fri, 01 Aug 2008 18:36:14 GMT

SpencerIsAQT (5/20/2008)

Well this is one of those subjects I can get very passionate about, but I'll try not to start any fights I am definitely extremely against banning "pit bulls" or any other entire breed. It is all about the owner and how they are raised Imo.

I TOTALLY agree with you! BAN the bad owners, NOT the breed!

RE: Pit Bull ban?

caninejan — Thu, 31 Jul 2008 21:35:18 GMT

I do not support nor do I agree with ANY breed specific legislation!!! Problems should be dealt with on a case by case basis. Every "attack" you hear about is not the same. Every case is individualistic with, many times, mitigating circumstances. If my dog bit someone who was trying to hurt me, I would not want him lumped with dogs who have been taught to bite by people who shouldn't own dogs in the first place. I also don't want my dog being discriminated against for just being a Rottweiler. Once breed specific laws pass, it's only a matter of time before it affects many other breeds...maybe your's.

RE: Pit Bull ban?

Junior_and_Me — Mon, 30 Jun 2008 14:04:07 GMT

rainsmom (6/30/2008)

also a little fact pit bulls were bred to be dog aggressive not human aggressive. the dogs that do bite were treated mean and are for the most part fear biters which is different from full on aggression

Thats a very good point! Well said Rainsmom!

RE: Pit Bull ban?

annielovesmama — Mon, 30 Jun 2008 10:16:07 GMT

SpencerIsAQT (6/27/2008)I agree with Junior or anyone who doesn't want permits. Also, how would you go about it with mixed breeds? Somebody says it's a pit bull mix somebody says it's a Lab.. Who do you believe? Also, the people who fight these dogs and train them to be mean and vicious, do they really care about the law and what is "right"? Of course not! So what would make them follow the law and get a permit? There would just be underground pit bull breeding and selling, I don't think it would change anything, at all.
Well there is my opinion, for what it's worth. =)

Well if you think about it it would kanda determin good owners from bad owners. as for the people who might not follow the law, than they get arrested. siple as that, no permit=arrest. as for it being mixed breed, pit bull and something else, just get a permit since its half pit bull... and another thing about people not following the law,not EVERYBODY is going to get one but for what its worth some people are going to get caught..... not everybody listens.

dogsRmeWell first of all as you just stated the Golden Retriever is let wild with no rules it was probably taught to kill on its own. It isn’t its natural gene.

Well who would tech there dog to kill? and since all dogs ancesters are coytes, every dog must have the instinct of killing, just some is stronger instinct than others.

Ahgreeded completly 100%

Oh and another thing, i was just browsiong the fourms when i saw this livley discussion goin on, and i didnt even know about it. boy where have i been?!

RE: Pit Bull ban?

rainsmom — Mon, 30 Jun 2008 09:24:12 GMT

Actually Dobermans should be banned too along with Rottweiler’s.

wow!!! I cant believe the ignorance!

I have raised 3 dobermans to be guide dogs for pilot dogs of columbus ohio. I have never had a problem with them being mean. I dont think they would be used as service dogs if they had problems with them biting. I cant believe you think dog breeds should be banned. as jr. stated earlier labs do have the highest bite incedents and yes I have been bit by a lab.

RE: Pit Bull ban?

Junior_and_Me — Sat, 28 Jun 2008 15:30:01 GMT

Ah so your patick! I thought as much, now I see why you argue the way you do.

Patrick: If you would read what I wrote I don't want to ban mixes with that breed because they only half of that gene which would give them a lower change of being aggressive. Unless they show signs of aggressiveness then they would be put down.

Response: So you are willing to kill 50% of pups that are born with the so called uncurable agressive gene? Thats a pity...

I guess you want to reponsible for scenes like these:

Patrick: Yes, any dog with teeth can bite and even the gentlest dog can bite when they feel they have to but what I am talking about is severe bites. Ever look at a pitt-bulls mouth?? It’s like looking at a great white sharks. That could tear a leg off and cause stitches and a heck of a medical bill for somebody. As for another dog not listed as a "dangerous breed" their bite won't be as bad as the pitts and rotties.

Response: Bites are can be equal no matter what the breed. You can't only say that about pitbulls, but I won't argue about that with you, your view is too partial...

Patrick: Well for no apparent reason both pitt-bulls came charging at my sister and everyone was running into the house and my mom pulled me away into the house and my dad went in got his gun and killed the dog. My sister's face is still screwed up today from the attack and spent many months in the hospital. He nearly killed her. Do you understand a little better now?

Response: That wasn't the pitbulls fault, had the owner trained it, this situation could have been avoided. Would you totally against Huskies had it been a husky that attacked your sister? I would think so, your view is once again partial in this aspect.

Patrick: I really can't see how that would help. Once a dog is agressive it will always be agressive. Any little thing can set it off to attack.

Response: Alright every dog has a gene to do something, they have a gene to want to pull, a gene to want to bark, a gene to want to nip, a gene to want to jump to get attention. Are you telling me just because all of these are genes you can't train them out of doing it? Because thats what you are saying. And if that is so, then what are we doing in this forum?!?! Seeing how we, according to you, can't fix something in genes or make it slightly better then all ethology and cynology done is for nothing. DUDE take a step back and apply what you are saying to dog studies in general, it doesn't make sense! You can't just say "Well we are talking about pit bulls, the others aren't the same" because a pit bull is still a DOG!

Kiddo, I'm done talking to you, I've been in many arguements about pitt bull, far more than you have ever been. I know what I know because I talk to knowledgable people, not just because of personal experiences or what the media says. If everyone were to take their personal experience and generalize it then we'd never agree. I grew out of the stage of thinking that Pit Bull were the bad doggies, maybe one day you will too.

RE: Pit Bull ban?

MissMolly-Lover — Sat, 28 Jun 2008 15:29:24 GMT

dogsRme (6/28/2008)

Jr_and_me is in red:

The whole point of ownership is to train your dog, if someone doesn't do that, how can you go and blame the dog for it?!?! I'm telling you, the governement has tried issuing permits for wolf hybrids, and because of percent disagreements you can still have wolf hybrids. I know people in my area that have wolf mixes. All you'll do with permits is increase pit bull mixes, and if you have any knowledge on genetics whatsoever, you'd know that mixing genes like that is a gamble. Yes you might get a well balanced dog, but the chances of getting the worse of both breeds is equally possible. Then what? You want to put those dogs down? Eh? Nope not the solution...Yes the point is to have your dog trained but those dogs it doesn’t matter HOW you train them it is there gene and not amount of training will solve issues like that. Ever hear the saying, when a spouse cheats, you can bet they will do it again? well it’s like dogs, if a dog is aggressive you can bet it will always be aggressive. And I believe wolf hybrids shouldn't be kept as pets for one reason they are wild and you can never predict what an animal will do.

Well here's what missmolly-lover has to say:

I don't think it's necessarily the dogs "genes" that make a dog aggressive. Although I'm getting sick about hearing about pit bulls a dog is a dog! Wish people would stop harping on pit bulls! Many things can trigger a dog to attack especially if they feel threatened. And yes actually training can solve issues. Just look at the old tv show the little rascals the dog Petey was a pit bull and you see how the little kids on that show did all kinds of things to that dog but did you ever hear about that pitbull ever mualing them? Exactly NO that dog was not aggressive! So your whole statement about "If a dog is aggressive you can bet it will always be aggressive" is not true and is just a generalization based on the dog that attacked your sister which I'm sorry to hear. Pit bulls Can be gentle dogs it just depends on the way they are raised and sometimes it may depend on the amount of socialization they recieved when they were puppies. But yes I know they were originally bred to fight. But most of the time they are just trained to be aggressive. You can think what you want but I'll always believe that its the owners that make a dog what it is,not the dog itself.

RE: Pit Bull ban?

dogsRme — Sat, 28 Jun 2008 15:01:13 GMT

Jr_and_me is in red:

Hahahaha so you are for banning of Dobies and Rotties too, eh? Well that just goes to show how naive you really are. You seriously don't seem to understand the concept of nature vs nuture. How many other breeds do you want to ban also? Lemme guess you will also try to issue permits for the American Stafforshire Terrier, not to mention all terriers since they were bred to KILL. Along with the Beauceron, alot of the mastif breeds, which would inevitably lead to the banning of breeding that have mixes of those latter mentioned.Yes I am for the Permits of dobies and rotties, I have since then changed my opinion on banning because a friend told me once the government gets an inch of control they take a mile. If you would read what I wrote I don't want to ban mixes with that breed because they only half of that gene which would give them a lower change of being aggressive. Unless they show signs of aggressiveness then they would be put down.

As for the bite statistics, my dear friend let me tell you, the labs do have high rates for bites especially because they are so popular. See because they are popular, BYB's see that they can sell them easy and thus resulting in breeding without thinking about pedigrees or past behaviors. You are only partial because you own labs, well tell you what, I'm not going to say that chows aren't aggressive just because I own a chow that hasn't bitten anyone or anything. Thats claiming ignorance.Yes, any dog with teeth can bite and even the gentlest dog can bite when they feel they have to but what I am talking about is severe bites. Ever look at a pitt-bulls mouth?? It’s like looking at a great white sharks. That could tear a leg off and cause stitches and a heck of a medical bill for somebody. As for another dog not listed as a "dangerous breed" their bite won't be as bad as the pitts and rotties.

The reason why your view is so twisted is because of the media. If you don't take the time to learn the actual facts, and not just go with the news then you'll never see things clearly. The media sees stories involving pit bulls as things of intrests and thus focuses on thier attacks more so than those of other breeds. That is something that is false. For one you don't know me and I could judge you for being on that website that I saw bad stuff on but I won't because I don't know you, so you have no right to say that I get my information from the news. I never watch the news and hardly ever pay attention to the media. The reason I am for them getting permits and doing something about them is because, when I was 10 and my sister was 5 we were all in the backyard around the fourth of July. Well our neighbor across from us had 2 pitt-bulls and a great Dane. Well we thought all the dogs were sweet and my sister and I were running around the house and were in the front lawn at the time with the hose and the neighbor opens the door letting his dogs out to go to the bathroom. Well for no apparent reason both pitt-bulls came charging at my sister and everyone was running into the house and my mom pulled me away into the house and my dad went in got his gun and killed the dog. My sister's face is still screwed up today from the attack and spent many months in the hospital. He nearly killed her. Do you understand a little better now?

HOWEVER if you want a system that is less leaniant than permits take this idea: how about if people that own pitbulls have to go to special classes taught by good behaviorlists, and in the end get discounted on their dog-licences. This will result in better trained owners and decreasing the amount of ill trained pit bulls. Also the owners won't think its for nothing because they get a nice discount on a license that would otherwise be slight more expensive. I really can't see how that would help. Once a dog is agressive it will always be agressive. Any little thing can set it off to attack.

WOULD EVERYONE ANSWER ONE QUESTION?

Just tell me, is it possible to help a border collie or other herding breed make it learn that its bad to nip certain things? (I know its random but plz answer and I'll tell you why I asked) Tell me, are those dogs always attacking people, what is the majority?? I say pitts, why do you think that herding dogs are not in the "dangerous dogs" category?

-----------------------------------------------------------------

Okay Above I replied to what you had to say in Bold Black print.

RE: Pit Bull ban?

Junior_and_Me — Sat, 28 Jun 2008 13:19:15 GMT

dogsRme (6/27/2008)

Junior_and_Me (6/27/2008)

starry*boy (6/27/2008)

I feel people should have a permet or insurince on this certain dog when owning one..

Permits... then you'd have problems with percent loop holes, same with wolf hybrids. If its 75% you don't need a permit and things like that. So I don't think thats the answer.

There are other breeds that were used dog fighting, you want to ban those too? Or issue permits for them? They'd have the same wired behavior as the pitbull.

No... none of that is the answer, wired behaviors (which is what you mean by being mean in there genes) can be curbed with proper training. And any demonstration of those old habits only suggest ill ownership. So YES its the owners fault for not knowing what they got themselves into.

Ahhh it doesn't matter though, years ago it was the Alsatians and Dobermans, in a few more years... who knows it might be Labradors seeing how they have the highest bite rates.

Thats my opinion though.

Actually Dobermans should be banned too along with Rottweiler’s. True there are other breeds in with the dog fighting but that is because they are trained but the point is they use dogs that have gene that makes them vicious. Sure you might see a Golden in there but that is because they trained them for it but it isn't their gene so that is why the mostly use pit bulls and other mean dogs because they don’t have to spend too much time training.

If you had a permit then it would solve more law issues and it would also solve the good owners from going to jail because all the skum owners wouldn't have the permit and they would have to pay for not owning the permit to have the dog.

I mean think of it, if you saw a drug addict have a Golden or Pomeranian as a guard dog, people would laugh. Also where did you get your information about Labradors? I find that information false because I own two and they have yet to bite being as the most popular dog in the world, I hear of little cases of them biting.

Honestly, if we had a dog with a bad reputation in our neighborhood I would be scared to let my little sister outside in fear it would attack her. I would probably take action to get the dog out of the area because nobody wants to live in fear.

One more bit of the truth, when I hear someone owns a pit-bull I right away thing, they are drug dealer or they are a criminal. I can see maybe a mixed breed since it wouldn't have all the mean genes.

Therefore I don't think its right to blame the people owning the dogs. It’s all in the genes. Even looking into a pit-bulls mouth it is like looking into a great white sharks. Anyway, this is my opinion and I know everyone will probably disagree with me but this place is full of friendly debates right?

And the way you say that when you hear someone owns a pitbull and then you lable them as drug dealers and such, only adds to the ubsurdity of your reasoning, many can testify to the mellowness of pitbulls, with proper training and I they don't have to be drug dealers.

I really don't want to be like the UK, where pit bulls are banned. Their ignorance shows in the way they let themselves be swayed by what most say, even though their believes may be twisted by what they think is right. Take for example how the UK also bans Pinch Collars, a wonderful tool, that when used properly is great for curbing pulling behaviors. (Hey but thats not me talking, I've talked with many experienced and knowledgable trainers that would agree!)

WOULD EVERYONE ANSWER ONE QUESTION?

Just tell me, is it possible to help a border collie or other herding breed make it learn that its bad to nip certain things? (I know its random but plz answer and I'll tell you why I asked)

RE: Pit Bull ban?

MusicDog — Sat, 28 Jun 2008 10:20:57 GMT

I do have to agree that all we do is argue and argue and instead of all the arguing we need to sit down and find a suiting plan to fix the issue that is lurking between people and government and find that happy medium.

Anyone have any suggestions on how to solve this issue where both sides win?

RE: Pit Bull ban?

dogsRme — Fri, 27 Jun 2008 19:43:58 GMT

outcast13 (6/27/2008)

well Here's my 2 cents on the matter

Absoulute banning I am 100% against becuase this could mean the authorities can march right in, take your dog, and euthanize him. Just because of the dogs breed!!:

I agree with that, once the government steps their foot in, they will take every right away. That is why my permit idea will work and it will solve fighting on both ends it. I think that is the problem with the world and why we have wars it that EVERYONE is fighting and disagreeing but neither of us are offering to find a happy medium. We both want it to be our way or the highway which that isn't how the world works. Ya need to have to find a solution there both sides can agree to, without that you will never solve anything.

RE: Pit Bull ban?

outcast13 — Fri, 27 Jun 2008 19:17:05 GMT

well Here's my 2 cents on the matter

Absoulute banning I am 100% against becuase this could mean the authorities can march right in, take your dog, and euthanize him. Just because of the dogs breed!! Restrictions I could see being a better way to make the public feel safe and for the pit bulls to be safe. (However, in my ideal world pit bulls would follow the same laws as every other dog lol!) And as far as living in fear, These dog owners have a lot more reason to be afraid than you do. And think of how many more people get hurt or killed in car crashes, or just freak accidents! Actually, the other day I was walking Poppy in the park and A couple with what had to be a pitbull mix stopped to check out Poppy. The Pit mix was A very obediant dog. And he was very very well with my little 12 pound of fur And what scares me is the fact that Pit bulls arn't the only other breed affected by BSL in the United States. German Shepherds, Siberian Huskies, Alaskan Malamutes, St. Bernards, Newfoundlands, and Leonburgers are all affected by BSL. And that's just the ones I can think of that arn't "bully breeds". I think any dog owner, or actually any pet owner should be concerned, because you never know.... your breed could be the next...
Thanks for hearing me out you guys

RE: Pit Bull ban?

SpencerIsAQT — Fri, 27 Jun 2008 19:15:32 GMT

dogsRme (6/27/2008)

[quote]Also thank you for keeping this a friendly debate! I hope everyone else can keep it at that.

I always try to keep things friendly as possible.. I will pm you then.

RE: Pit Bull ban?

dogsRme — Fri, 27 Jun 2008 18:54:58 GMT

SPENCERISAQT: I do not see how they would be able to regulate the people owning Pit Bulls. When there is a will, there is a way. If somebody wanted a Pit Bull and wanted to fight it or whatever and not get a permit, they would do it. The only people the permits would affect would be responsible people which them having a piece of paper really doesn't make any difference. Also, I doubt it would be hard for people to lie to get a Permit if they really wanted to. Just because somebody gets a Permit does not mean they will be a good owner. Really I just think there needs to be MUCH harsher punishments for dogs (of ANY breed) who injure or kill a person and for people who mistreat their dogs. It seems to me that these people just get the equivalent of a slap on the hand and go on their merry way. If they are gonna own a dog and not train it and it hurts somebody.. They had better pay for that. People get off WAY too easy.

Okay you do not understand the meaning and the understanding of the permit. Could you please open your mind a little bit? Once you do that you will be able to understand the concept. So let me explain it again:

With a permit law it would state that all known aggressive dogs with that aggressive gene shall own a permit. With the permit you will be solving three problems.

1. If the dog goes bite somebody you won't be in as much trouble with a permit because you stated that you knew that when you the dog there was a high probably that the dog would bite and that is the terms you accepted when you got there permit. That would solve some issues if the dog was to bite and if you are in court. Also if there was that law and you were in court it would also be one less charge filed against you if you had the permit.

2. The permit would allow officers to check into your record and allow the people who they think are good to have the permit and let criminals to not have one therefore knowing that the criminal wanted the pit-bull they can go in and look to see if they have any.

3. With the permit if there are a case of any attacks and the person don't have a permit to be put into jail and the mean dogs to be put down which would reduce the bad population.

The only issue with that is that we all know what a poor job law people and police officers are and if they would do their job we wouldn't be in this big mess.

Are things working with the way things are now?!? What would you rather see, Banning or permits? The world isn't how you want it and sometimes you have to look at what is worse and in my opinion the banning would be worse for people who love that breed. So instead of wasting time trying too not get them banned try making a solution so everyone wins. Just try my idea and it might actually impress you.

So with that said, do you understand? Also thank you for keeping this a friendly debate! I hope everyone else can keep it at that.

RE: Pit Bull ban?

SpencerIsAQT — Fri, 27 Jun 2008 18:38:45 GMT

[quote]dogsRme (6/27/2008)

[quote]SpencerIsAQT (6/27/2008)

I agree with Junior or anyone who doesn't want permits. Also, how would you go about it with mixed breeds? Somebody says it's a pit bull mix somebody says it's a Lab.. Who do you believe? Also, the people who fight these dogs and train them to be mean and vicious, do they really care about the law and what is "right"? Of course not! So what would make them follow the law and get a permit? There would just be underground pit bull breeding and selling, I don't think it would change anything, at all.

And about the Golden Retriever thing.. I love all dogs and have nothing against Goldens, but this is a prime example of irresponsible owners being the problem. I know somebody with a Golden, they give the dog NO rules, NO boundaries, NO discipline.. It is dog aggressive and has almost killed a dog, yet they still say he is friendly and let him play with dogs.. he is out of control and even has some issues with being mouthy and biting people... So if a pit bull behaves that way, it is the breed at fault.. If it is a Golden, it's the person? I blame the person in all accounts.

Well there is my opinion, for what it's worth. =)[/quote]

Well first of all as you just stated the Golden Retriever is let wild with no rules it was probably taught to kill on its own. It isn’t its natural gene.

I believe its PART owner and PART gene. I’m not saying it is 100% gene. I know I see a lot more attacks in pit bulls then I do Golden’s. If it isn’t very well true about what I am saying then I want to see Golden’s be put in dog fights and raised badly and we will see the percent of Golden’s who are mean by gene or people. I bet you it would come out people. Now for pit bulls if you took out not the people you would probably get 60/30 mean because of their gene. What you don't understand is that these dogs have always been aggressive and some person got mad about them wanting to ban them so they used the excuse "it’s all people" and that like the rest of America we followed the herd and agreed with that. I am going to read more into genetics and see what I can find to backup my information.

For your permit argument, try to understand that by using permits they would be able to separate the BAD owners from the GOOD owners which then they would arrest the people with no permit. Of course there will be people not using a permit and break the rules. That is WHY we need this law then we could get rid of the bad owners by catching them without the permit then thrown into jail and then they would put the bad dog down. This would then profit less bad owners and less aggressive dogs attacking. [/quote]

Actually it apparently was this particular Golden's "natural gene" because left to his own devices with no direction from his owners, he chose to be aggressive rather than friendly. I would not say that *all* goldens are like that, just as I would not say that *all* pit bulls are naturally aggressive either.

I too think it is Partly people and Partly gene, but I see it *mostly* people while it appears to me you see it as *mostly* gene. Their genes and breeding do play a part, I believe it is the same for any breed.. I would blame that goldens behavior partly on bad breeding, but mostly on the owner.

Actually the herd of people following the media are the people thinking all Pit Bulls are aggressive when that simply is not true. When do we ever see *good* media coverage of Pit Bulls? Hardly ever. When do we see "evil Pit Bull" coverage? All the time. The people as a whole are following the media, believing they are all bad.

I do not see how they would be able to regulate the people owning Pit Bulls. When there is a will, there is a way. If somebody wanted a Pit Bull and wanted to fight it or whatever and not get a permit, they would do it. The only people the permits would affect would be responsible people which them having a piece of paper really doesn't make any difference. Also, I doubt it would be hard for people to lie to get a Permit if they really wanted to. Just because somebody gets a Permit does not mean they will be a good owner. Really I just think there needs to be MUCH harsher punishments for dogs (of ANY breed) who injure or kill a person and for people who mistreat their dogs. It seems to me that these people just get the equivalent of a slap on the hand and go on their merry way. If they are gonna own a dog and not train it and it hurts somebody.. They had better pay for that. People get off WAY too easy.

RE: Pit Bull ban?

dogsRme — Fri, 27 Jun 2008 18:23:43 GMT

SpencerIsAQT (6/27/2008)

Well first of all as you just stated the Golden Retriever is let wild with no rules it was probably taught to kill on its own. It isn’t its natural gene.

RE: Pit Bull ban?

SpencerIsAQT — Fri, 27 Jun 2008 17:47:48 GMT

dogsRme (6/27/2008)

[quote]Junior_and_Me (6/27/2008)

[quote]starry*boy (6/27/2008)

I feel people should have a permet or insurince on this certaindog when owning one..

Permits... then you'd have problems with percent loop holes, same with wolf hybrids. If its 75% you don't need a permit and things like that. So I don't think thats the answer.

There are other breeds that were used dog fighting, you want to ban those too? Or issue permits for them? They'd have the same wired behavior as the pitbull.

No... none of that is the answer, wired behaviors (which is what you mean by being mean in there genes) can be curbed with proper training. And any demonstration of those old habits only suggest ill ownership. So YES its the owners fault for not knowing what they got themselves into.

Ahhh it doesn't matter though, years ago it was the Alsatians and Dobermans, in a few more years... who knows it might be Labradors seeing how they have the highest bite rates.

Sure you might see a Golden in there but that is because they trained them for it but it isn't their gene

If you had a permit then it would solve more law issues and it would also solve the good owners from going to jail because all the skum owners wouldn't have the permit and they would have to pay for not owning the permit to have the dog.[/quote]

I agree with Junior or anyone who doesn't want permits. Also, how would you go about it with mixed breeds? Somebody says it's a pit bull mix somebody says it's a Lab.. Who do you believe? Also, the people who fight these dogs and train them to be mean and vicious, do they really care about the law and what is "right"? Of course not! So what would make them follow the law and get a permit? There would just be underground pit bull breeding and selling, I don't think it would change anything, at all.

And about the Golden Retriever thing.. I love all dogs and have nothing against Goldens, but this is a prime example of irresponsible owners being the problem. I know somebody with a Golden, they give the dog NO rules, NO boundaries, NO discipline.. It is dog aggressive and has almost killed a dog, yet they still say he is friendly and let him play with dogs.. he is out of control and even has some issues with being mouthy and biting people... So if a pit bull behaves that way, it is the breed at fault.. If it is a Golden, it's the person? I blame the person in all accounts.

Well there is my opinion, for what it's worth. =)

RE: Pit Bull ban?

lover of puppies — Fri, 27 Jun 2008 17:47:23 GMT

i would own one,they are a great breed of dog and they have gotten a bad rap over bad owners.i been around alot of dogs and had no problems with any dog and banning dogs over stupid people that is just wrong.i have been around dobermans and rotties and they are great dogs as well.

RE: Pit Bull ban?

dogsRme — Fri, 27 Jun 2008 17:03:09 GMT

Junior_and_Me (6/27/2008)

starry*boy (6/27/2008)

I feel people should have a permet or insurince on this certain dog when owning one..

Permits... then you'd have problems with percent loop holes, same with wolf hybrids. If its 75% you don't need a permit and things like that. So I don't think thats the answer.

There are other breeds that were used dog fighting, you want to ban those too? Or issue permits for them? They'd have the same wired behavior as the pitbull.

Ahhh it doesn't matter though, years ago it was the Alsatians and Dobermans, in a few more years... who knows it might be Labradors seeing how they have the highest bite rates.

Thats my opinion though.

RE: Pit Bull ban?

Junior_and_Me — Fri, 27 Jun 2008 15:33:59 GMT

starry*boy (6/27/2008)

I feel people should have a permet or insurince on this certain dog when owning one..

Permits... then you'd have problems with percent loop holes, same with wolf hybrids. If its 75% you don't need a permit and things like that. So I don't think thats the answer.

There are other breeds that were used dog fighting, you want to ban those too? Or issue permits for them? They'd have the same wired behavior as the pitbull.

Ahhh it doesn't matter though, years ago it was the Alsatians and Dobermans, in a few more years... who knows it might be Labradors seeing how they have the highest bite rates.

Thats my opinion though.

RE: Pit Bull ban?

starry*boy — Fri, 27 Jun 2008 15:19:05 GMT

I feel people should have a permet or insurince on this certain dog when owning one.

RE: Pit Bull ban?

dogsRme — Fri, 27 Jun 2008 12:10:30 GMT

Okay, once again I am the odd ball out again. Hehe. Okay my opinion is really different from everyone. I vote "yes, yes, yes" One because it’s genetic in their blood that they are mean. Granted a few can be sweet but I would "never" trust one. I have had many people tell me "oh well a Golden bit me." Well I agree to some extent that it is how they are raised but it’s also a big part of their genetic gene that makes them unpredictable like that. I think everyone is blaming people because they don't want to blame the genes. That is how I feel and I would feel much safer if they are banned.