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RE: Sick of this commercial

dc-moderator — Fri, 30 May 2008 08:43:29 GMT

This topic is being closed and the members who have used derogatory names will be dealt with privately.

RE: Sick of this commercial

SpencerIsAQT — Thu, 29 May 2008 21:15:08 GMT

[quote]PudelGrl (5/29/2008)

[quote]wolfgrrl (5/29/2008)

First of all, you said you're an adult, so I'm arguing with an adult.

Secondly, I feel that these days too many children have the misguided idea that this world and all the adults in it owe them something. They believe that they know everything. They believe that they can bully others, both children and adults, into doing, saying, feeling what THEY want them to. I also feel that far too many parents these days let them get away with it. My children are intelligent, kind, loving individuals. They are outspoken, leaders, and have their own thoughts. They also RESPECT other peoples feelings, thoughts, and ideas. They say please, thank you, yes mam or sir, and will stand up against any bully.

I instilled those values in my children and I believe in them and I will stand up to ANY bully, no matter the age, in what I feel is an appropriate manner. So I argue with children on this site, because SOMEONE needs to put SOME of them in their place since apparently no one is at home. I have no problem arguing with children who feel themselves of a level to argue with an adult. Now, go ahead and get your back up about it. That's just the way it is. [/quote]

I have to agree with this, I may be far from raising my own children, but I know I won't be letting them get away with what kids these days are doing. My parents raised me to take care of myself and to know no one owes me anything. To this day the "tough love" has done nothing but open doors for me and push me to be my best.

I challenge all kids here to try to live a day without mom and dad around. Work a job, go to school, cook all your own meals, do your own laundry, clean the house, get to your own hobbies etc... I've been doing all that, minus the job, since I was 10.[/quote]

I couldn't agree more about what seems to me to be most kids these days. I am so glad also to have been raised with rules and knowing that I am not the most important person on the planet! Too many parents think they will "hurt" their kid by reprimanding them or just teaching them life lessons, it is utterly ridiculous.

And let me just say, if you consider me to be a "kid" being 17, I could definitely live at least a day without my parents around.. and I have By the time I was 8 I was cooking my own lunch and lunch for my siblings (gotta love macaroni and cheese haha) and at 13 my chore was to do all the laundry, and vacuum.. I think that responsibility and having chores and having to "do your part" for the family is exactly what more kids need to do these days! It may not seem fun, but I could not be happier with the way I was raised

RE: Sick of this commercial

PudelGrl — Thu, 29 May 2008 18:37:45 GMT

wolfgrrl (5/29/2008)

First of all, you said you're an adult, so I'm arguing with an adult.

Secondly, I feel that these days too many children have the misguided idea that this world and all the adults in it owe them something. They believe that they know everything. They believe that they can bully others, both children and adults, into doing, saying, feeling what THEY want them to. I also feel that far too many parents these days let them get away with it. My children are intelligent, kind, loving individuals. They are outspoken, leaders, and have their own thoughts. They also RESPECT other peoples feelings, thoughts, and ideas. They say please, thank you, yes mam or sir, and will stand up against any bully.

I instilled those values in my children and I believe in them and I will stand up to ANY bully, no matter the age, in what I feel is an appropriate manner. So I argue with children on this site, because SOMEONE needs to put SOME of them in their place since apparently no one is at home. I have no problem arguing with children who feel themselves of a level to argue with an adult. Now, go ahead and get your back up about it. That's just the way it is.

I have to agree with this, I may be far from raising my own children, but I know I won't be letting them get away with what kids these days are doing. My parents raised me to take care of myself and to know no one owes me anything. To this day the "tough love" has done nothing but open doors for me and push me to be my best.

I challenge all kids here to try to live a day without mom and dad around. Work a job, go to school, cook all your own meals, do your own laundry, clean the house, get to your own hobbies etc... I've been doing all that, minus the job, since I was 10.

RE: Sick of this commercial

PudelGrl — Thu, 29 May 2008 18:33:02 GMT

starry*boy (5/29/2008)

annielovesmama (5/29/2008)

Also Porscha, if everything was designed? Who designed god? Who designed the one that designed god and so on? Becomes a rather circular argument doesn't it? Has to stop somewhere....

actully pudelgrl, if you read the bible mabye you would get a better picture at that. or perhaps go to church??

Agree annie. I am am not much on relgion but I know Steven has told me all that stuff that pudelgrl is talking about how we evolved from baterica and stuff about athiesm is a bunch of garb. So since he is better at explaning things, if he is on tomm I will ask him to explain to you what he explained to me.

Also, I am going to ask my paps preacher soon your exact questions pudelgrl! We will see what he says. Pudel, you say relgious people take it to far don't you think athiests take it to far? They do!

Quote for vedio :

Note that the guy said that they couldn't prove the one theroy and that the only one can be is God but the man refuses to belive in that so he created it.

(quote for link) If you click that link there is a list of vedios you can watch.

Those are REAL scientists with REAL information to back up that God is real.

First of all, theories in science are not proven, but supported. In addition, I'm not seeing any real scientists in your videos. They are misquoting many famous scientists. Gould, Pasteur, Darwin etc... all have brillient theories, but you can't pull out little sentinces and remove the sentinces that follow them and show it in full

Video one rebuttel (the youtube one)

Premise #1: We have found a ton of skulls and evolutionary fossils, they are the "missing links" that this video convays we "haven't found". We have many different transitional forms from our ancestoral humans to us and in addition between many other species and we continue to find more every day. The major issue of not having "more" is that biological material is well, biodegradable. You need incredably specific conditions in order for bone or other matter to fossilize, otherwise it will be broken down and degraded by neighbouring microorganisms.

Premise #2. Can't even call the theory correct, its called Abiogenesis, spontanious generation was an older theory and isn't the same thing (its been disproven for years). Read my post above for Bada's paper. Pasteurs papers don't actually mention supernatural creations at all.

Premise #3. Mutations do play an important role in the development and advancement. There are several documented cases on benficial mutations that increase genetic material. Ever heard of an expansion or an unequal crossover for heaven sake? A duplication, an inversion? Bacterial species ADD material to their genomes all the time through a variety of methods (plasmids, viral vectors, uptaking enviromental DNA) consistantly, we can actually watch it in the lab. These mutations are highly beneficial, as they produce resistance mechanisms and new metabolic abilities. We have been able to see this in several more evolved organisms as well.

Lets try Video #2 shall we? (Titled: Mutations prove creation)

First of all note that Jerry Bergman, the guest, attained his "PhD in biology" at a non-acreditted college. We also call these "diploma mills" as people are seen completing a PhD in something like 6 months when real PhD. research takes about 4 years minimum. In addition, prior to that he didn't even have a degree in biology. The "university" he got it from has been ordered to close perminatly by the state. The documentary says he has several PhDs, but the only "PhD" he has is this one.

Anyway, I'll now take the time to actually watch what bergman says. He has some basic ideas about biology, but his overall theory is shakey.

1) First of all, he suggests that DNA only changes by crossing over. Crossing over doesn't just cause an exchange. It can cause an expansion, reduction, duplication, inversion, delection etc... just to name a few things it does. In addition, ~1 in every 1000 DNA base pairs tend to mutate during the development of egg and sperm. Seeing we have ~3 billion base pairs total, that adds up to 1,000,000 new mutations per person (if we are talking in human terms), thats pretty significant and can explain a lot of things, such as the human beings diversity all the way to why isolated species can split off into different species over time. In addition, organisms with smaller genomes tend to reproduce quickley, such as bacteria that can multiply once ever 30 minutes, the speed of reproduction allows for mutations to build up.

2) Dawkins computer program, a rather simply way to show simple mutations to young learners. Note that it is random, and we do have an "influx of new letters so to speak" note that DNA works in a 3 letter code, not only the 4 bas pairs (ATCG), these code 26 amino acids, stops and starts. To produce a protein we need the right order, but mutations don't always affect an animo acid code (because there are 64 3-letter codes, some code for an amino acid more than once). In addition, not all amino acids will affect the overall protein function (some do no change at all, because some amino acids have similar proteins), and the other changes can either make a protein lose its function, function better, or even provide a different function. Those who lose the function tend to die off and not reproduce, but those that have good function will pass the gene on, this is the key to evolution. We also have to note that we don't shuffle ALL letters, there are only point mutations (in one letter), and most combinations for the same amino acid are similar. His theory about us producing a lot of serine and a lack of tryptophan is actually false. If we get a "bad" mutation, lots of which will produce serine, it will get knocked out of the population quickley.

3) Right that there is not totally random changes in base pairs, however his issue is that he is focusing on single conversions. The fact is, there are regions more prone to mutation and regions more prone to being stable. The whole combination of amino acids in the region produce unequal mutation, not single bases. For example GC rich regions (G and C bind very tightly), he says cytosine is unlikely to be substuted, but what he forgets that it is also unlikely to be MUTATED. Thyamine is highly prone to mutation as it is a weak structure, but is also more likely to be inserted (for example, its what mutates when you get a sunburn and needs to be constantly replaced). The basis of his argument is that mutation in an evolutionary sense would get rid of certain base pairs, but when you add in those other facts, there is a chemical reason for this level of substitution. We have a lot of mechanisms replacing damaged thyamine. Realistically, Dawkin's simple model works.

4) Signalling the death of a cell at a certain point in time? The gene works selectively, not in fully, yes, if the gene was overexpressed, it would cause us to die out. But, if those that have the gene to die won't live to reproduce, which is why we have the balance. Apoptosis or "selected cell death" has great purpose, we have discovered when we knock this gene out we form tumors. In addition, we need cells to die to produce tubes in our body (they form as solid and then hollow out), our fingers and toes (they produce as one whole and the cells between them die), and cells getting infected need a death mechanism in order to kill cells that are infected with viruses etc... Thus it is evolutionary stable (it is helpful). Also not that apoptosis is a multi-step process, a simple signal can't just turn it on, rather it is a multi-step pathway working on threshold signals to turn on (Ie: A high level of signals from other surrounding cells is needed for it to work).

5) Hot spots --> oh geez, I mentioned this before, he's contradicting himself from my above argument about mutation areas and why random mutation doesn't produce a giant string of thyamine. He says GC rich regions are hot spots for mutation, and he's sort of right. These tend to be repeating regions and they do tend to undergo expansion and compression during crossing over. This doesn't mean full mutation however. Yes, there are many regions identified for major mutation, places of very needed genes don't tend to mutate (metabolic things etc...). The other hot spots are less important for overall function which can cause major species changes that might be beneficial, driving evolution. Again, your not going to get an accumulation of T's unless its useful, otherwise you get death and thus genetic code not being passed on. In addition, cold spots do "rarely change" but over billions of years and generations, you do get changes, and some of these are major turning points.

6) Polarity, oh god, he's running over again what I mentioned before. Random changes can either not change a protein, change it but not change its function, increase its function, or decrease its function. Once again, non-functional mutations will be quickley bred out. In addition, most do not make a difference. he makes a point that there are a lot of hydrophobic residues compared to others, but guess what? There primitive and thus overexpressed for good reason (the original gene was there, and they work).

7) Cancer is caused by mutations yes... "I've never seen a positive mutation in cancer research"... of course you havent, the genes you are looking at are causing cancer!! I've seen a ton of negative mutations too, but I'm studying night blindness and bipolar disorder right now! We only look at the portion of the gene causing the disease, not everything else going on in the body.

As well, REAL scientists don't look to prove if god is real or not, that is theology and it can't be proven or disproven. We look at the world around us, take down facts from what we see, and then form conclusions from that. Those supporting creationism as "science" say "Okay, this is the conclusion, what random facts can we find to back it up?". Please find actual scientific papers or at least articles that provide citations of other papers that give the FULL story. Randomly taking quotes from and manipulating them so they work for you is not science. (And to top that off, we don't talk for or against god in science, because it is a non-issue)

Videos like this make me want to bash my head against the wall, this pretend science gives me a headache. I can't believe I watched over 30 minutes of that.

RE: Sick of this commercial

wolfgrrl — Thu, 29 May 2008 18:30:42 GMT

starry*boy (5/29/2008)

Good greif!!!! Something as simple as a commerical has turned into a cat fight. Wolfgrl you are right, you stand up to bullies. But there is a time when you learn when you are being bullied and when to keep your big mouth shut. You two are both grown adults, could you please act like it? I believe in standing up for yourself and I believe in not letting people pust you around which is the main reason why I am still on dogchannel isn't that right? But when you "mature" which I don't see alot of that anymore you learn when you speak up and when you shut it. Honestly wolfgrl, you could of avoided this whole debate by keeping your yackidy yack mouth shut and ignored the argument and moved on. It's called "grow up." You seem like a very heartless person and I feel for your kids. I was rasied with morals and pride and to stand up for yourself but I learned to have a heart. You wouldn't give me another chance because in the "past" I have lied about myself. I was only 13 when I joined the boards and now I am 16. I have grown up, I have matured, I have learned alot. I tried makign a menz asking you to give me a chance but you refused to. Anyone with a heart would say "okay, i understand you were just a child then I wil give you a chance". Now I see who is really more mature and "full of drama". Ever hear the saying "calling the keddel black" well you do that alot, I notice. You preach but you don't pratice it. You were a teenager and a kid once too (I know hard to believe) so try to remember being that age, you were no angel and they way you act now, I bet you were far from angel. Would you like it if for every immature thing you did nobody forgave you? Im sure you would have ALOT of people who hate you if that was so. So Treat others the way you want to be treated, instill that in your kids before they turn into hearless unforgiving zombies. Everyone makes mistakes, everyone deserves a second chance. I am sorry you cannot give me a second chance, but you know the door swings both way, I won't ever beable to think of you any other way then a heartless hard core new yorkin who needs to be shown love because she has been hurt so many times she has closed her heart. Somebody who lost meaning of being a human who cares. Somebody who needs a wake up call. I don't think I could ever go to new york without thinking everyone there "acts" like you because that is the poor example you have shown me. I am northern and I am not proud of it for exact reasons you are. You need to open up and forgive, open your eyes lady. You don't know it all, you know very little about love and life. I can't hold it in anymore, I don't hate you, I don't like you, i feel nothing toward you. I find you as a drama started because you have shown that one to many times, I gave you many chances, to bad you couldn't give me that. Someday you will learn, someday you will, mark my words. Get off your high horse that you are on. Take my reply post to heart and find the good in it. I notice you only come back when drama starts, you only reply to threads that are full of fighting. Im tired of being played by you and your "clickie" and I know that I am being played, I know alot then i lead on. Denying it only makes me shake my head more. I let you play me, I let you be mean to me, i figure "let you make a fool of yourself" which I must say it has worked. Now if you come back with some sassy answer, I will not reply, I will now be as low as to keep the argument going. You just need to hear the truth like it, believe it or not and face it. Im done posting in this thread, any reply you make to this that will be full of drama, rude, nasty, sassy, smartelic will be just a waste of time.

Bullieing: Name calling, being rude to another person telling them their way of believeing is wrong, telling them harsh words and trying to lower them as they are.

Arguing: disagreeing over something so stupid which if not handled in a mature way turns into name calling and more argueing.

Learn the differnce, if it is arguing be the adult please and just ignore the person and don't LOWER yourself to their level by keeping the fight going. If its bullieing and they are calling each other names and hitting or in this case attacking each other in nasty words, then you stand up for yourself. I sure hope your kids know the differnce.

Fine, don't reply back then. But if you want to air it out in public Starry, just remember you did it, not me. No, I chose not to give you another chance. I don't like you either. We have our reasons and if you want, I'll be happy to go into detail, but I prefer not to. I have no desire to air it all here. However; I will say that you have no idea what I may or not have said because the last two bits of *correspondence* I had from you went like this. A private message from you telling me I'm a terrible person, blah blah blah, and accusing me of being someone I'm not. I try to reply but you BLOCKED me. Then I log onto today and there's another one from you telling me I'm a terrible person, you won't jump on me if I leave you alone, blah blah blah, I try to reply but you BLOCKED me AGAIN. I have no problem with leaving you alone if you leave me alone. I DO NOT want to talk to you, about you, with you, or near you. I have better things to do.

Furthermore you don't know anything about me, I am a very loving and kind hearted person. I simply do not like being lied to or bullied and when you decided to have all of your little cronies messaging me and telling me they were going to get me kicked off of DC because I don't like you it ticked me off. Then YOU told me you were going to have me kicked off. Last thing I have to say is......good luck with that. And just so you're aware, in case you decide to carry this on.... I have kept EVERY SINGLE MESSAGE you have EVER sent me. EVERY threat, EVERY lie. You wanna play, honey, I'm happy to, but be VERY careful what you wish for.

RE: Sick of this commercial

starry*boy — Thu, 29 May 2008 18:07:20 GMT

Good greif!!!! Something as simple as a commerical has turned into a cat fight. Wolfgrl you are right, you stand up to bullies. But there is a time when you learn when you are being bullied and when to keep your big mouth shut. You two are both grown adults, could you please act like it? I believe in standing up for yourself and I believe in not letting people pust you around which is the main reason why I am still on dogchannel isn't that right? But when you "mature" which I don't see alot of that anymore you learn when you speak up and when you shut it. Honestly wolfgrl, you could of avoided this whole debate by keeping your yackidy yack mouth shut and ignored the argument and moved on. It's called "grow up." You seem like a very heartless person and I feel for your kids. I was rasied with morals and pride and to stand up for yourself but I learned to have a heart. You wouldn't give me another chance because in the "past" I have lied about myself. I was only 13 when I joined the boards and now I am 16. I have grown up, I have matured, I have learned alot. I tried makign a menz asking you to give me a chance but you refused to. Anyone with a heart would say "okay, i understand you were just a child then I wil give you a chance". Now I see who is really more mature and "full of drama". Ever hear the saying "calling the keddel black" well you do that alot, I notice. You preach but you don't pratice it. You were a teenager and a kid once too (I know hard to believe) so try to remember being that age, you were no angel and they way you act now, I bet you were far from angel. Would you like it if for every immature thing you did nobody forgave you? Im sure you would have ALOT of people who hate you if that was so. So Treat others the way you want to be treated, instill that in your kids before they turn into hearless unforgiving zombies. Everyone makes mistakes, everyone deserves a second chance. I am sorry you cannot give me a second chance, but you know the door swings both way, I won't ever beable to think of you any other way then a heartless hard core new yorkin who needs to be shown love because she has been hurt so many times she has closed her heart. Somebody who lost meaning of being a human who cares. Somebody who needs a wake up call. I don't think I could ever go to new york without thinking everyone there "acts" like you because that is the poor example you have shown me. I am northern and I am not proud of it for exact reasons you are. You need to open up and forgive, open your eyes lady. You don't know it all, you know very little about love and life. I can't hold it in anymore, I don't hate you, I don't like you, i feel nothing toward you. I find you as a drama started because you have shown that one to many times, I gave you many chances, to bad you couldn't give me that. Someday you will learn, someday you will, mark my words. Get off your high horse that you are on. Take my reply post to heart and find the good in it. I notice you only come back when drama starts, you only reply to threads that are full of fighting. Im tired of being played by you and your "clickie" and I know that I am being played, I know alot then i lead on. Denying it only makes me shake my head more. I let you play me, I let you be mean to me, i figure "let you make a fool of yourself" which I must say it has worked. Now if you come back with some sassy answer, I will not reply, I will now be as low as to keep the argument going. You just need to hear the truth like it, believe it or not and face it. Im done posting in this thread, any reply you make to this that will be full of drama, rude, nasty, sassy, smartelic will be just a waste of time.

May i bring up the times you caused drama between me? I think I will.

Breeding her dog reply: A fight fiorella and I had between each other and and she exchanged nasty words to me and you saw a little opening and used it against me to look bad. Well guess what? 2 months after that fiorella wrote me apologizing and we are best friends again and closer then ever because somebody tried to tear us apart but it didn't work. That is the only reason you liked fifi and the only reason you thought I didnt create her was because she was mad at me and hated me and you "enjoyed it". Well its over now, because her and I were to mature to let something that stupid ruin our friendship. We are like sisters.

How about the time where you said I was all these fake members like diva star, and whats their names? Why because they were on my side not yours...So anyone on my side...is fake? Wow nice athology on that one! Loard knows if I said you were somebody you would bite my head off.

The comment you said i made about steven again you got that Idea from Fiorella when she was mad at me. Fiorella is only 1 week older then me. 1 week...same age and we teenagers get mad and say stupid stuff!! Yet you saw "dissing carrie, my oppertuinty" and you used it to make steven dislike me. Guess what? Didn't work him and I are closer then before since then and we get along fine because he knows I would never call him names, he is one of the nicest people I know!!

Then in a post asking why I haven't been banned yet? Hmm somebody wants be gone, guess what? I ain't leaving. I only sent you 2 PMS after you sent me one (note you sent the PM 1st not me) totally dissing me. Grow up lady!

Bullieing: Name calling, being rude to another person telling them their way of believeing is wrong, telling them harsh words and trying to lower them as they are.

Arguing: disagreeing over something so stupid which if not handled in a mature way turns into name calling and more argueing.

Sorry, I had to bring this up, I think its time people see the real truth.

RE: Sick of this commercial

tweety3030 — Thu, 29 May 2008 17:54:26 GMT

i see your point on that.sometimes when you try to get your point out its comes out like a mean and harsh or being bully,i know you are trying to help them out and understand what is you are saying.

RE: Sick of this commercial

wolfgrrl — Thu, 29 May 2008 17:44:35 GMT

First of all, you said you're an adult, so I'm arguing with an adult.

RE: Sick of this commercial

tweety3030 — Thu, 29 May 2008 17:32:39 GMT

you say your an adult then why do you agrue with kids on this site

RE: Sick of this commercial

wolfgrrl — Thu, 29 May 2008 17:21:49 GMT

I sincerely doubt that since I am also WELL over 20, have a husband, 2 children, 2 dogs, a cat, a house of our own and bills that we alone are responsible for. I have done nothing to you personally other than tell you to get a life when you personally attacked me for no reason, which is certainly not that behavior of an ADULT, and I really wish you would just knock it off and move on to something more constructive now please.

RE: Sick of this commercial

tweety3030 — Thu, 29 May 2008 17:17:07 GMT

look i am over 20 and way older than you

RE: Sick of this commercial

wolfgrrl — Thu, 29 May 2008 17:14:01 GMT

Aren't your parents supposed to be regulating your internet use or something? I repeat....GET. A. LIFE.

RE: Sick of this commercial

tweety3030 — Thu, 29 May 2008 17:11:35 GMT

well if these is suppose to be adults z(wolfgrl and pudel) posting well they are just two immature to keep arguing because they cant seem to know when to shut their mouth shut,especially that wolfgrlwith the biggest mouth on all dc! these are adults whohavent matured or grownup yet.must of done some drugs as a teen or something

RE: Sick of this commercial

wolfgrrl — Thu, 29 May 2008 17:10:36 GMT

tweety3030 (5/29/2008)

hey wolfgrl,firgure are athiest glad you are going to help and i wont have to put up with you in heaven,lol.oh well you wont get in there with that attitude

Show me where I said I was any religion at all?? And who the heck are you? I know for a FACT I have never done anything to you, I don't even know you, and you're telling me where I'm going when I die? That is absolutely ridiculous. Get a life, and grow up.

RE: Sick of this commercial

doglover7 — Thu, 29 May 2008 16:54:11 GMT

Stop! This is NOT about what type of person you are, it's about getting rid of the commercial. I can't believe you guys are carrying this out like this...There's been too much agruing lately, and if THIS is what the future of dogchannel is like, well, I'm leaving. I can't believe this. And I am just leaving this topic completely.

I love dogchannel, it's the best dog website ever. Please don't ruin it by fighting. Please.

RE: Sick of this commercial

tweety3030 — Thu, 29 May 2008 16:32:24 GMT

hey wolfgrl,firgure are athiest glad you are going to help and i wont have to put up with you in heaven,lol.oh well you wont get in there with that attitude

RE: Sick of this commercial

annielovesmama — Thu, 29 May 2008 16:27:01 GMT

Actually Annie, I've read the bible cover to cover, taken several religious studies classes, and I attend a non-demoninational Christain chruch because I enjoy the messages they convay. The heads of the church I attend know I'm agnostic and guess what? They think I'm a great person, or they must anyway, seeing I chaporone the youth group on a regular basis.

Right now I'm looking to read the Koran as well as some of the eastern religious texts given the time. Religion is fascinating, but unfortunatally I think some people take it a bit too far.

i never said you werent a good person... im glad you like the Christian church, and i am glad you read the bible.. and i do agree religion is fascinating and people do take it to far. but this post has gone from talking about a commercial we might not all like, to how the world was made... i do find that a bit sad, i mean the website is called, "Dog Channel" the boards are ment to share feedback, opnions, feelings, talk about our dogs, share our dogs, and dog problems,to get or give info, ect. dont get me wrong i think its great we all have our own opnions, but can we keep our information and opnions about dogs please. Than You!

RE: Sick of this commercial

starry*boy — Thu, 29 May 2008 16:23:52 GMT

annielovesmama (5/29/2008)

Also Porscha, if everything was designed? Who designed god? Who designed the one that designed god and so on? Becomes a rather circular argument doesn't it? Has to stop somewhere....

actully pudelgrl, if you read the bible mabye you would get a better picture at that. or perhaps go to church??

Also, I am going to ask my paps preacher soon your exact questions pudelgrl! We will see what he says. Pudel, you say relgious people take it to far don't you think athiests take it to far? They do!

Quote for vedio :

Note that the guy said that they couldn't prove the one theroy and that the only one can be is God but the man refuses to belive in that so he created it.

(quote for link) If you click that link there is a list of vedios you can watch.

Those are REAL scientists with REAL information to back up that God is real.

RE: Sick of this commercial

wolfgrrl — Thu, 29 May 2008 16:18:05 GMT

PudelGrl (5/29/2008)

annielovesmama (5/29/2008)

Also Porscha, if everything was designed? Who designed god? Who designed the one that designed god and so on? Becomes a rather circular argument doesn't it? Has to stop somewhere....

actully pudelgrl, if you read the bible mabye you would get a better picture at that. or perhaps go to church??

Right now I'm looking to read the Koran as well as some of the eastern religious texts given the time. Religion is fascinating, but unfortunatally I think some people take it a bit too far.

100% in agreement PudelGrl! Religion is extremely facinating, but is often taken to extreme levels. In my experience it is MUCH too often used as a tree to hide behind while people throw out their bigotry and hateful messages in the name of a religion whose words they twist to meet their own needs at the moment. My opinion. My experience.

RE: Sick of this commercial

PudelGrl — Thu, 29 May 2008 16:11:02 GMT

annielovesmama (5/29/2008)

Also Porscha, if everything was designed? Who designed god? Who designed the one that designed god and so on? Becomes a rather circular argument doesn't it? Has to stop somewhere....

actully pudelgrl, if you read the bible mabye you would get a better picture at that. or perhaps go to church??

Right now I'm looking to read the Koran as well as some of the eastern religious texts given the time. Religion is fascinating, but unfortunatally I think some people take it a bit too far.

RE: Sick of this commercial

annielovesmama — Thu, 29 May 2008 16:00:32 GMT

Also Porscha, if everything was designed? Who designed god? Who designed the one that designed god and so on? Becomes a rather circular argument doesn't it? Has to stop somewhere....

actully pudelgrl, if you read the bible mabye you would get a better picture at that. or perhaps go to church??

RE: Sick of this commercial

PudelGrl — Thu, 29 May 2008 15:57:02 GMT

porscha (5/29/2008)

The book says Miller created life in the laboratory but all he really created was a bunch of problems. The experiment produced a few amino acids, but it mostly created tar and carboxylic acid, and those are poisonous to life. He left oxygen out of the mixture because oxygen would have broken down the amino acids, but there was oxygen on the earth when life was supposed to have formed. Even if there was no oxygen, then there couldn't have been any ozone layer, so the UV rays from the sun would have killed every living cell anyway. He had to isolate the amino acids artificially to keep them from breaking apart again, and anyway, they never would have bonded to each other to start forming a protein because they would have bonded to the tar or the carboxylic acid first.

Which book, citations please!

Just so you know, in case you didn't read my last post, I was refuring to evolution, not abiogenesis, but if you want some info on it, here it goes.

The Miller-Urey experiments went on from about 1953-1959, rather outdated in terms of organic chemestry as many new methods have evolved since then. It did indeed "fail" to some extent because it produced only a few amino acids (alanine and glycine mainly, with a couple basic resides) as well. The major problem was contamination, however it was not tar nor carboxilyic acid, rather acids and nitrogen compounds. The major problem with this experient is that Miller did not take any reducing agents into account, such as the iron or carbon complexes that were likely present in an early earth (look how much of it we have no for heaven sake). The problem wasent actually the acid, but the nitrogen complexes were breaking down amino acids as they are strong oxidizing agents.

Recently, this experiement was repeated by Bada and collegues. I'm citing the article below in case you want to have a look (if you don't have access, let me know as I do have it downloaded on my computer and I can send you the pdf document). He took into account the reducing agents (lets face it, our chemestry knowledge has exploded over the past 50 years or so) and voila, he had a beaker chock full of amino acids. Even more importantly, the ones found in the highest concentration are those associated with organisms that are lower on the evolutionary time scale and thus more primitive, as many of the more complex amino acids must be synthesized by protein complexes in more developed species. I encourage you to check it out.

A reassessment of prebiotic organic synthesis in neutral planetary atmospheres. 2008. Orin Life Evol Biosph. Apr;38(2):105-15.

Also Porscha, if everything was designed? Who designed god? Who designed the one that designed god and so on? Becomes a rather circular argument doesn't it? Has to stop somewhere....

RE: Sick of this commercial

annielovesmama — Thu, 29 May 2008 15:48:01 GMT

Ok when i started to read this post i couldnt belive my eyes!!! people, were supposed to be talking about dogs?! or something realting to dogs!!! not about being gay or how the world was created!!! first of all we shouldnt even get into how the world was made because there are MANY diffrent belifes that deffently can start an argument.... as for the being gey part, why did we bring tha up??? you could have just, "i dont like her" personly, i like ellen up to a certin level... i mean shes nice and i watch her show once in a while, see my dad dosent approve of her or her show becuse she is gay and that against the bible, and my mom thinks shes nice and watches her shows once in a while but dose not approve of her being gay... i mean dont get me wrong i dont like her being gay and all the point im trying to convay is, people have diffrent oppinions and you need to accept it. its really sad what this post has come to.... (in my opnion)

RE: Sick of this commercial

tweety3030 — Thu, 29 May 2008 15:11:53 GMT

pudelgrl,

you are wrong athiest is all fiction

RE: Sick of this commercial

porscha — Thu, 29 May 2008 14:44:07 GMT

PudelGrl (5/29/2008)

porscha (5/29/2008)

For future reference, you have a choice to be gay. I have heard many stories about people being straight but after a break-up or whatever reason they go gay. Its messed up. Also for your information pudelgrl, the atheist you are, if God don't exist in your little world then how did bacteria evolve? Then how did whatever made that evolve, evolve? How did the whole solar system get created without God? If the bible has been translated my people after people and it get messed up on the way how come the signs are coming true? You do realize that all your science baloney is made up my people and they write all this fake scientific stuff and they brainwash you into believing this garb! That is what makes me upset. Let’s not argue over what you call a gay person. I call them a fag and if they don't like it they will have to get over it!!!

Porscha

I can not prove god doesn't exsist, nor can you prove god exsists. This is theology, its rooted in belief, not placing a set of known facts together and making a theory in order to explain what happens. As for gay people going straight or straight people becoming gay, yes, you do hear about it. However, consider this, most gay teens think their throughts, feelings, and desires and "bad" and will try to be straight, same with those already "out of the closet" if they are pursecuted enough. Punishment can change behavior for sure, but it can also destroy a person's life.

As for science, I not only study it in theory, but I do it in practice. I work with DNA and genetics day in and day out and my findings have been consistant. Keep in mind in science that we like to do blind designs, for example right now I'm working on a study looking for mutations in a serotonin transporter gene. I have a large quarry of individual DNA samples where I analyse for the gene, however, the samples I have are a mixture of affect and unaffected patients and I don't know which is which. The person testing the people for the phenotype expressed doesn't tell me this and just labels things with numbers, so even if I wanted to be biased and make up results to suit me, I really couldn't. Plus, the database of patient numbers with their phenotypes is locked, so once I enter the data for each number, we can't change how they line up. Sorry to say, but as I send results back, he keeps getting more excited, maybe we found something?

As for evolution, please note that it does not work to suggest how life became in the first place (this is abiogenesis) or how the universe formed (this is the big bang). All it suggests is how organisms became as diverse as they are through a series of natural selection. A small mutation occurs, that organism becomes more suited to the enviroment because of that mutation, and produces more offspring than other organisms, and the cycle continues. Over billions of years this produces results. Heck, even in a lab setting by placing fruit flies on two different diets they were able to produce two separate species (they could not breed with each other) over 9 generations. Seeing this, it doesn't make going from single celled organisms to those of higher complexity so impossible. Many scientists who work with these theories do believe in god, however they realise that just because god is in their life, doesn't nessisarily mean he followed genesis 1 word for word. In most countries, chapters 1-11 of genesis are considered more of folklore and metaphorical to the lessons they teach, such as genesis 1 refuring to fertility. In addition, if you look at the order organisms and the world was created, the view contradicts genesis 2, which additionally has a creation story.

In addition to that, if we look at our oldest reference to written biblical literature the dead sea scrolls, they only date to 300 BCE. The stories date back much later and were passed down many generations allow for discrepancy. In addition, we must look at how the bible has been translated into a variety of different languages. Most english bibles have been translated from latin and there are many words that don't match up entirely or contexts that we are unfamilier with in our language. This is why I encourage everyone reading religious texts to look for metaphors and the literal meaning is often lost in context. For example, with the gay men example a friend of mine and a Christain paster had several suggestions of what the original passage could have eluded to. These include pedophilia (men in the army those days were encouraged to have intercourse with the young boys they were training) and men in an army situation that were already married. In addition, because it did not cause pregnancy back in those days, it could have been highly responsible for the spread of disease as people would see it is "consequence free". While a lot of our modern STDS wearn't seen in that era. My research suggests that syphillis could have been present, that causes many long term damages.

Another thing to keep in mind about the eras of the bible is that many of the commands we no longer follow as they were specific to context. It tells you to deficate far from camp (no washrooms), to avoid seafood at certain times (disease), how to plant your crops etc... All which came from basic knowledge of sanitation of the times. Times have changed and different methods have developed.

Please keep in mind that the bible isn't a universal source of truth, but an allusion to our history and a source of morals. There are many other religious texts that provide the same meaning to other people, and in addition many philosophical types of thinking that work for those that don't follow a diety (Supernaturalism is only one of many theories of "right" and "wrong". I'm more of a hedonist personally).

RE: Sick of this commercial

PudelGrl — Thu, 29 May 2008 14:08:21 GMT

porscha (5/29/2008)

Porscha

RE: Sick of this commercial

porscha — Thu, 29 May 2008 12:31:54 GMT

RE: Sick of this commercial

doglover7 — Thu, 29 May 2008 11:30:12 GMT

Guys I'm sorry for bringing this whole thing up...I was just saying maybe use a different word...The purpose of this post was to get rid of the commercial, not to argue. So please, can we get back to talking about the commercial.

RE: Sick of this commercial

PudelGrl — Thu, 29 May 2008 09:48:10 GMT

2BrownDogs (5/28/2008)

tweety3030 (5/28/2008)

2browndogs get over it stop being on your high horse.fyi fags are sins and being black person isnt.fag is a choice and being black isnt so there

I'm on no high horse, bigot.

And since you're referencing the bible....

"Judge not, let you be judged." Matthew 7:1

"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone." John 8:7

As well, just to be the devils advocate, being homosexual is not a choice. Did you just randomly one day say "I'm going to be attracted to the opposite sex because I'm supposed to be?", I know it came onto me rather slowly that I was just attracted to boys. No one had to tell me, I just was. Same with those who are gay and lesbian.

Genetic studies have shown large coorelations between genetic makeup and homosexuality. In addition, another study has shown in paticular that certain mothers are more likely to produce gay sons because they produce a disproportionatly higher number of antibodies against the androgens of her male fetus. To further this, the youngest sons in a family have a disproportionately higher chance of being gay because these antibodies increase in expression in each subsequent pregnancy.

For the record, I have some gay friends and I wish everyone could meet them. They are smart, talented, and overall wonderful people.

RE: Sick of this commercial

PudelGrl — Thu, 29 May 2008 09:42:19 GMT

Yep, a faggot was a bundle of sticks to be used for fire.

However "fagging" was a practice used at boys schools in england as a frosh type term. Older boys would beat on the younger one. "Fag" was originally the guy who was the "head" and would beat on the younger boys, as rapes began to occur, "Fag" transfered to homosexuality. This term is thus derogatory as it involved rape and criminal activity, where homosexuality is simply seeking relationships with the same sex.

When refuring to homosexuals, gay is usually the accepted term, while "fag", "homo", and "queer" are usually seen as derogatory. Please use these words.

As for the bible, absolutly. If you follow Jesus, try acting like him for once. Remember he made his friends among the traditionally "worst" in society and vyed for change by helping people, not purseuting. The main reason I am not Christian is although Christ was a great teacher, the majority of "Christians" don't seem to be following his lessons and I don't want to be in that group. I constantly see racism, sexism, pursecution against gays, pursecution against science etc... etc... Take the whole WWJD thing to heart, he would have embraced everyone for who they were.

Quite simply, tounge and cheek "I like Jesus, but I'm not so sure about his fan club"

RE: Sick of this commercial

rainsmom — Thu, 29 May 2008 04:13:20 GMT

2BrownDogs (5/28/2008)

tweety3030 (5/28/2008)

2browndogs get over it stop being on your high horse.fyi fags are sins and being black person isnt.fag is a choice and being black isnt so there

I'm on no high horse, bigot.

And since you're referencing the bible....

"Judge not, let you be judged." Matthew 7:1

"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone." John 8:7

dont forget love thy neighbor!

maybe some kids need to go back to bible school. I was taught that you should love everyone and hatred is a sin. you can dislike what they are doing and you do not have to be friends but you should never hate. "for God loved the whole world"

and if you want to get technical the definition of a faggot is a bundle of sticks and twigs.

so I think we should just agree to disagree and quite posting (especialy since this has nothing to do with dogs) and get along.

RE: Sick of this commercial

2BrownDogs — Wed, 28 May 2008 19:09:18 GMT

tweety3030 (5/28/2008)

2browndogs get over it stop being on your high horse.fyi fags are sins and being black person isnt.fag is a choice and being black isnt so there

I'm on no high horse, bigot.

And since you're referencing the bible....

"Judge not, let you be judged." Matthew 7:1

"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone." John 8:7

RE: Sick of this commercial

tweety3030 — Wed, 28 May 2008 18:40:48 GMT

2browndogs get over it stop being on your high horse.fyi fags are sins and being black person isnt.fag is a choice and being black isnt so there

RE: Sick of this commercial

starry*boy — Wed, 28 May 2008 18:35:06 GMT

2BrownDogs (5/28/2008)

starry*boy (5/28/2008)

doglover7 (5/28/2008)

porscha (5/27/2008)

[quote]doglover7 (5/27/2008)

Please don't say, 'fag'. It's not the 'proper' word for that type of person. Just my opinion...But ya, the commercial should go!

Acutally, she is stating her opinion on somebody and it is the truth about ellen she is a fag, she is marrying another woman. If it wasn't true then I would understand but it is true and Porscha has every right to call her that. As long as Porscha isn't using a cuss word or nasty name for that then she is okay. You like Ellen you dont like her being called that name its okay, but the fact is Ellen is a "fag". Unless she goes straight you cannot change that fact so you have no authority to tell Porscha not to say that word we are americans with freedom of speech and Porscha didn't break any guideline rules because when she said "fag" she wan't attacking anyone personally on the boards she was attacking somebody who is famous which honestly, I dislike Ellen for the same reason as Porscha.

UGH i seen this commerical 30 times today and its really on my nerves to.

Actually starry, "fag" is a derogatory word for someone who is gay. It is just as bad as calling an Afro American a "n." Yes, everyone has the right to their own opinions, but if it is to spew hate, this is really not the place for it. I am really disappointed and saddened the direction this post has gone.

In all local schools here, they teach tolerance. I'm just sorry that this isn't a nationwide practice. Pathetic.

I was not aware of that and I thought "fag" was just a name like queer, gay, homo ect. I guess I havent herd of anyone going to jail for saying that like the "n" word.

Agree, sad by where this post has gone.

RE: Sick of this commercial

2BrownDogs — Wed, 28 May 2008 18:27:43 GMT

[quote]starry*boy (5/28/2008)

[quote]doglover7 (5/28/2008)

[quote]porscha (5/27/2008)

[quote]doglover7 (5/27/2008)

I love Ellen Degeneres! I have a post on her. She's a really generous person. Well...I guess she's kind of hyer, haha. But, ya, it's not that attractive.

EW! She is a fag. She is a sicko. I can't wait until comercial is gone!![/quote]

Please don't say, 'fag'. It's not the 'proper' word for that type of person. Just my opinion...But ya, the commercial should go![/quote]

Acutally, she is stating her opinion on somebody and it is the truth about ellen she is a fag, she is marrying another woman. If it wasn't true then I would understand but it is true and Porscha has every right to call her that. As long as Porscha isn't using a cuss word or nasty name for that then she is okay. You like Ellen you dont like her being called that name its okay, but the fact is Ellen is a "fag". Unless she goes straight you cannot change that fact so you have no authority to tell Porscha not to say that word we are americans with freedom of speech and Porscha didn't break any guideline rules because when she said "fag" she wan't attacking anyone personally on the boards she was attacking somebody who is famous which honestly, I dislike Ellen for the same reason as Porscha.

UGH i seen this commerical 30 times today and its really on my nerves to.[/quote]

Actually starry, "fag" is a derogatory word for someone who is gay. It is just as bad as calling an Afro American a "n." Yes, everyone has the right to their own opinions, but if it is to spew hate, this is really not the place for it. I am really disappointed and saddened the direction this post has gone.

In all local schools here, they teach tolerance. I'm just sorry that this isn't a nationwide practice. Pathetic.

RE: Sick of this commercial

tweety3030 — Wed, 28 May 2008 18:13:51 GMT

she is a faggy perra who needs mental help for being a fag and its against the bible

RE: Sick of this commercial

starry*boy — Wed, 28 May 2008 17:59:11 GMT

doglover7 (5/28/2008)

porscha (5/27/2008)

doglover7 (5/27/2008)

I love Ellen Degeneres! I have a post on her. She's a really generous person. Well...I guess she's kind of hyer, haha. But, ya, it's not that attractive.

EW! She is a fag. She is a sicko. I can't wait until comercial is gone!!

Please don't say, 'fag'. It's not the 'proper' word for that type of person. Just my opinion...But ya, the commercial should go!

UGH i seen this commerical 30 times today and its really on my nerves to.

RE: Sick of this commercial

doglover7 — Wed, 28 May 2008 11:40:42 GMT

porscha (5/27/2008)

doglover7 (5/27/2008)

I love Ellen Degeneres! I have a post on her. She's a really generous person. Well...I guess she's kind of hyer, haha. But, ya, it's not that attractive.

EW! She is a fag. She is a sicko. I can't wait until comercial is gone!!

Please don't say, 'fag'. It's not the 'propper' word for that type of person. Just my opinion...But ya, the commercial should go!

RE: Sick of this commercial

PudelGrl — Tue, 27 May 2008 22:18:21 GMT

Havent seen the ad, but from what I've seen of Ellen I like her. She seems to really convay a joy of life, c'est la vie type of additude. Not caring about being a little silly and doing what she loves (more people need to learn this). The american express advertisment with all the animals in the office is great.

RE: Sick of this commercial

doglover7 — Tue, 27 May 2008 15:37:10 GMT

I love Ellen Degeneres! I have a post on her. She's a really generous person. Well...I guess she's kind of hyer, haha. But, ya, it's not that attractive.