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RE: I don't breed dogs, and considered breeding

Collie/GSD/Sheltie/Corgi/Russell_luvr — Sat, 23 Aug 2008 09:25:25 GMT

I'm not anti-breeding. I'm all for it, so long as it's RESPONSIBLE breeding. The truth is, not many people do it the right way or for the right reasons.
Breeding is complicated by the fact that inbreeding is making it harder to keep the breeds healthy (as shown by the BBC broadcast, "Pedigree Dogs Exposed") and part of the problem is that so many people are breeding without so much as researching first.
This explains it better, lots of good info here:
dogster.com/forums/Choosing_the_Right_Dog/thread/550671

You will recognize me as the user/dog, Gray Dawntreader in the link.

A simple vet check is NOT enough. Yes, I am for a vet check, but besides a vet check you need genetic health testing (such as OFA, CERF, and several other tests), which is expensive and not available at the vet's office. I think of myself as a voice crying out for the health of the dog breeds and against BYBs and puppy mills. And by golly, I'm doing all in my power to help stop them!
See my website, it's dedicated to educating people about what the reputable breeder does and his reasons for breeding dogs.
I have data to back up what I say. Wanna see it? If so, remember you asked for it.

RE: I don't breed dogs, and considered breeding

dogsRme — Sat, 23 Aug 2008 08:54:53 GMT

mommadog (8/23/2008)

I thought this was the dog breeding board, not the anti-dog breeding, attack people board.. Be helpful, your opinion doesn't mean much, use facts that you can back up!

There is nothing wrong with breeding..But learn all you can about it before doing so, and if at all possible find a mentor from a reputable breeder.

Talk to your vet, have your vet do an exam and testing before breeding, and also yearly. And do not let people intimidate you with their "opinions" and so called facts they get from other anti-breeders.

People throw those terms around and have no clue what they really mean. If someone attacks you, ignore them and take the advice from people who really want to help and the ones who have actual data to back up what they say...

Okay, this board is for people who accidently got their dog pregnant or are a good breeder. Not for people who want to breed for the heck of it. Therefore when someone posts something like that we reply suggesting they don't because it can not only kill their dog if the breeding isn't done properly but cause big issues.

You do realize that in your post you are supporting byb's? Which is just as bad as a puppy mill. Why don't you honestly go to a real puppy mill and tell the world how great they are. *I'm being sarcastic there* I find it sad. We are helping the lady, not being rude. Just telling her what we think is best which is not to breed.

RE: I don't breed dogs, and considered breeding

rainsmom — Sat, 23 Aug 2008 05:38:00 GMT

so what you are saying is that the op should go ahead and breed her oversized golden retriever, and ignore us when their are thousands of goldens in breed rescues and shelters? sorry but I am not going to tell someone they should breed their dog especially someone who doesnt know what they are doing doesnt health test!

RE: I don't breed dogs, and considered breeding

mommadog — Sat, 23 Aug 2008 04:04:44 GMT

[b]I thought this was the dog breeding board, not the anti-dog breeding, attack people board.. Be helpful, your opinion doesn't mean much, use facts that you can back up!

There is nothing wrong with breeding..But learn all you can about it before doing so, and if at all possible find a mentor from a reputable breeder.

Talk to your vet, have your vet do an exam and testing before breeding, and also yearly. And do not let people intimidate you with their "opinions" and so called facts they get from other anti-breeders.

People throw those terms around and have no clue what they really mean. If someone attacks you, ignore them and take the advice from people who really want to help and the ones who have actual data to back up what they say...[/b]

RE: I don't breed dogs, and considered breeding

Collie/GSD/Sheltie/Corgi/Russell_luvr — Wed, 16 Jul 2008 23:42:18 GMT

With all due respect, breeding that with almost no knowledge about it is a BYB practice.
Firstly, good breeders study for years and get a good mentor before actually breeding. Even after they are ready, before they breed they need to find some good dogs that are good representatives pf their breed then they do health testing (including OFA and CERF). There are many expenses, including being ready for any complications that can and often do come up.
In short, breeding responsibly doesn't bring any $$.
Also, good breeders breed only to help improve the breed.
If someone still wants to breed their dog like you, however, though I disagree with doing that, the least they should do is have an official contract that requires the buyers to spay and neuter the puppy they buy.
But I must say, why did you want two puppies? To get a dog just like your dog? Genetics is a complicated thing and even puppies in the same litter have very distinct differences. To get a puppy cheaper?
Actually, considering all the complications that often come up (including possibly having to do a c-section on the dog), it would probably be cheaper just to buy another dog, depending of course where you buy it from.
cookiemiller.tripod.com
No, BYBs are not necessarily bad people. My own uncle is a BYB, but he is actually a great guy besides.

RE: I don't breed dogs, and considered breeding

dogsRme — Sun, 06 Jul 2008 17:00:30 GMT

I am for the rights of people doing what they want (to a certain extent) I don't have a problem with people breeding mutts or their dog because they want one or puppies. It is their right to do so. What I am against is improper breeding and puppy mills of which the dogs are not taken care of and the dogs are sickly. I am against dogs being sold for high prices when you can save a shelter dog.

If you are looking into breeding I would go to the vet and seek some advice and read up on breeding in books and online. Make sure your dogs you are breeding go through a complete physical and health tests so that no diseases get passed on to the pups. Make regular appointments with your vet to check the dog during the pregnancy. This will take a lot of your time making sure the dog is happy, healthy and doing everything it should to make sure the pups come out healthy. If you don't have the time, I wouldn't think of breeding them.

RE: I don't breed dogs, and considered breeding

lover of dogs — Sun, 06 Jul 2008 16:43:40 GMT

well its up to the person if they want to breed.i did it once with my male dog.but when i heard one of my male dogs son was murder i decided not to breed again and had all of my dogs fix.plus there are so many unwanted dogs at shelters and pounds that are looking for home and i really feel for them.

RE: I don't breed dogs, and considered breeding

MusicDog — Fri, 06 Jun 2008 13:44:47 GMT

dobermom (5/18/2008)

my 2 cents,

people thinking its*COOL* to what they call *BREED* purebreds are not very well educated when it comes to what it means to Breed.
You breed to better the Breed.
It is an expensive and timeconsuming vendetta.

Real breeders do this for years and years, there dogs have show and or field trial championships.
There males and females have champion bloodlines.
It takes years to perfect a breed, to breed for temperament, character.

Why do I even bother, * bob & betty* are gonna do what they gonna do, and the dogs are the ones that suffer and pay the price for ignorant and uneducated people.

I agree 100% .

starry*boy (5/16/2008)

If you want two more puppies that are "purebred" Why not just buy one from a breeder or rescue one they do have puppies and purebreds. Plus it would be better then just breeding, and if you get one you don't have to go through the whole process of breeding with the dogs in heat and worring about there health.

I agree. That is no reason to breed dogs, because I want two puppies. Even if you can't afford it why not just go to a rescue? I bet it will cost lots extra just to breed dogs!

RE: I don't breed dogs, and considered breeding

MyNameSpaghetti — Tue, 03 Jun 2008 09:34:39 GMT

OP, from your lack of response, it seems you don't really have an interest in the truths voiced here. Someone earlier made a good point though, if you are such the advocate you claim to be, why is this even an issue. Why was your female not fixed years ago. Here's another sign of a good breeder - a neuter clause in a real CONTRACT.

But, thats beside the point, I'm aware you purchased her from a mill. Are you aware of the inbreeding and propogation of poor genetic traits that come from mills and bybs? She's 94 pounds, not breed standard. Sure she's got a wonderful temperment and her health is good. Thats great, you're lucky. But the possibility of her carrying those poor genetic issues through to another litter is very large.

If you are truly convinced she needs to be a mother, sure. Fine. But why don't you realize something YOU said in your second post about surrogate parenting. Your dog Twinkie played surrogate for another dog. There are numerous puppies at the humane society that need love. If you're feeling breed specific, call a specific rescue society. Try Golden Retreiver Rescue of Mid-Florida. Lots of Golden Retreivers that need homes..

A good idea before you ADD to their numbers.

RE: I don't breed dogs, and considered breeding

dobermom — Sun, 18 May 2008 12:47:04 GMT

RE: I don't breed dogs, and considered breeding

starry*boy — Fri, 16 May 2008 17:23:18 GMT

RE: I don't breed dogs, and considered breeding

outcast13 — Fri, 16 May 2008 14:00:53 GMT

PudelGrl (5/16/2008)

DagonHounds (5/15/2008)

You keep justifying why this woman should make up her own mind. How anyone can look at this situation and just shrug it off as "do whatever you want lady, don't you let no people assign no labels to ya" makes my head hurt.

No doubt, remember that not everything is opinion. How about some facts?

-North American animal shelters and overflowing with unwanted pets and great animals are being euthanized every day due to not enough homes. If a few more people would decide to spay/neuter instead of breeding we could eliminate the problem.
-Dogs do suffer from genetic disease, the only way to eradicate it is to make sure the genes causing the disease aren't there in the first place. The only way to make sure of this is by fully testing all possibilities.
-Breeding is in no way "easy". It takes time, money, and experience to raise healthy and well adjusted puppies.
-If people want a purebred dog, it really isn't that hard to find a breeder who shows, health tests, and breeds selectively. It only takes some time and effort on your part.

Its kinda hard to explain...... well, If somebody starts critisizing her it's human nature to want to defend yourself, and not really pay attention to what they are telling her, or make her more apt to breed her dog. So I'm trying to get her to look at things honestly without getting on the defense. to look at those facts and to look at the actual reason she is choosing to breed. .... I think I wrote that so it made scence??

RE: I don't breed dogs, and considered breeding

PudelGrl — Fri, 16 May 2008 09:11:56 GMT

DagonHounds (5/15/2008)

RE: I don't breed dogs, and considered breeding

DagonHounds — Thu, 15 May 2008 21:50:05 GMT

RE: I don't breed dogs, and considered breeding

outcast13 — Thu, 15 May 2008 14:05:53 GMT

DagonHounds (5/14/2008)

outcast13 (5/14/2008)

A backyard breeder is a person who casually breeds dogs with little or no regard to the breed standard, genetically linked defects and temperament

There is no true definition to a byb.

Why do you feel the need to act like behavior like this is unimportant?

I'm sorry I don't understand your question.

RE: I don't breed dogs, and considered breeding

DagonHounds — Wed, 14 May 2008 20:14:06 GMT

outcast13 (5/14/2008)

A backyard breeder is a person who casually breeds dogs with little or no regard to the breed standard, genetically linked defects and temperament

There is no true definition to a byb.

Why do you feel the need to act like behavior like this is unimportant?

RE: I don't breed dogs, and considered breeding

annielovesmama — Wed, 14 May 2008 16:44:21 GMT

my opnion is not to breed your dog, i mean theere are plenty of dogs in the shelter that are very cute and sweet that you could get... i do agree with everyone else thou.... you have to go through all those steps! and most people dont... but thats my opnion..

RE: I don't breed dogs, and considered breeding

outcast13 — Wed, 14 May 2008 14:22:36 GMT

Should you breed her? YOU are the only one that can answer that. Don't worry about Labels people give you. Just think about it in the big picture, list the pros and cons. You already seem to have the pros, now look at why we think you shouldn't breath, without getting on the defense. If you breed your dog, so be it, I thank you for listening to our opinions. If you don't, thats great! Just do what you think is right.

RE: I don't breed dogs, and considered breeding

outcast13 — Wed, 14 May 2008 14:15:06 GMT

A backyard breeder is a person who casually breeds dogs with little or no regard to the breed standard, genetically linked defects and temperament

There is no true definition to a byb.

RE: I don't breed dogs, and considered breeding

PudelGrl — Wed, 14 May 2008 11:08:36 GMT

I think this has been summed up well. Stop coming up with more excuses and take a serious look at what you are doing. You keep coming back hoping a few of us will agree with your motives, but quite simply, we don't. Breeding a dog without the proper health testing, breed standard and pedigree evaluation, plus the help of an experienced mentor for the first several times does go under the blanket of the BYB.

If you want to breed, your best bet is to spay your girl right now and look around at shows for a mentor. With this said mentor you can get help in understanding health testing, pedigree, breed standard, breeding practices etc... From there you can find a breeding quality female dog, show her, get her health testing done, and THEN have a litter. Unfortunatally not many are willing to take this level of effort, but trust me when I say its worth it in the end to have a litter of quality puppies.

RE: I don't breed dogs, and considered breeding

SpencerIsAQT — Wed, 14 May 2008 08:52:09 GMT

Well it seems like everything has already been said to you. I agree with rainsmom, 2browndogs, and DagonHounds. Choosing to breed a "pet quality" dog for any reason is a "byb". I don't know if you are in the situation of having friends/neighbors or whoever telling you they want puppies from your dog or you should breed your dog, but if you do, don't let them talk you into it! When I got Spencer I had a few people tell me they thought I should breed him, that he had a "great head" or whatever else, and to me at the time, knowing very little about breeding dogs, it sounded tempting, raising cute little puppies. But I researched online, and I knew he wasn't breeding worthy, so I got him neutered. Sure, the puppies may be cute and yeah the parents may have good temperaments, but there are plenty of shelter dogs that are cute or sweet or whatever else your reason for breeding "pet quality" would be. And if you volunteer/foster, I am sure you know that! But, like I said, I think everything has been plainly laid out to you as to why you shouldn't breed her, now you just need to decide whether to take our advice (do the right thing) or breed her..

RE: I don't breed dogs, and considered breeding

DagonHounds — Wed, 14 May 2008 08:37:23 GMT

Bella Romaine (5/13/2008)

Think what you want, I wanted 2 more puppies, and wanted a family connection. So I considered breeding her. That is NOT a backyard breeder. I'd give the puppies for free, if I thought a good person would take them.

Yes dear, it is.

You seem to be really confused as to what constitutes a BYB, which by this point if you ACTUALLY READ AND PROCESSED WHAT HAS BEEN POSTED, there shouldn't be any doubt in your mind.

Are you health testing? Not going to the vet and getting the "A-OKAY," I mean OFA hips and elbows and CERF testing and whatever else your breed is prone to. Have you checked the pedigree for epilepsy or hip dysplasia or any other genetic problems? Do you show, is your dog finished? How about her pedigree, full of champions on both sides? Is she a wonderful specimen of your breed? I can actually answer that one (no) for you, since she weighs in and measures way above the breed standard.

How about the sire? is all of that true for him as well? And what's so special about the sire that you want to breed to him, other than he has a working pair of testicles?

If you can't answer yes to all of that, or if any of that made you feel confused as to why it's necessary to breed, yes dear you are a back yard breeder. Breeding solely for puppies, and no other reason. That's all it takes to be a BYB. BYB does not necessarily imply that you take bad care of your dogs or that you don't care what homes they go to, or even that you're trying to make a profit. All it takes is making puppies for the sole purpose of making puppies. Thats it. Though something tells me you're not going to read this far into my post.

Also stop creating a new thread every time you return, just post in the first thread.

RE: I don't breed dogs, and considered breeding

2BrownDogs — Wed, 14 May 2008 07:45:38 GMT

Ditto rainsmom. Excuses and backpedaling.

In your initial post you said, I am a believer that female dogs should have one litter, so I intend to breed her this summer and This is the 1st time, I have actually planned a litter. So it appears that you are a bit past the "gathering opinion" stage, that you have already made your decision.

And yes, should you breed your dog, even just once, you would be a backyard breeder. A backyard breeder is a person who casually breeds dogs with little or no regard to the breed standard, genetically linked defects and temperament. Sorry, but just calling it like I see it. I'm actually very suprised that someone who considers themselves to be animal advocate even has a passing thought of breeding their pet quality dog, much less is actually planning the litter.

RE: I don't breed dogs, and considered breeding

rainsmom — Wed, 14 May 2008 04:33:17 GMT

I am sorry, but it seems like you just keep posting hoping someone will say its ok breed your pet quality byb dog. I know you say you want to keep 2 puppies but what will you do if she has say 10 puppies then you have to find homes for 8 and you can't find anyone that wants them?

Because of the prevalence and prominence of the breed, high demand results in many Goldens being abandoned each year by owners who can no longer care for them. puppymills are another source of orphan Golden Retrievers. These dogs, often old or in need of medical support, may end up in animal shelters.

The median life span for Golden Retrievers is approximately 10 to 13 years. While the breed is recognized for its vitality, many retrievers are susceptible to specific ailments. A responsible breeder will proactively minimize the risk of illness by having the health of dogs in breeding pairs professionally assessed and selected on the basis of complementary traits.

Breeding Golden Retrievers can be profitable for puppy mills and backyard breeders. As a result of careless breeding for profit, Goldens are prone to genetic disorders and other diseases. Hip dysplasia is very common in the breed; when buying a puppy in the US its parents should have been examined by the OFA or by PennHIP for hip disease

I don't breed dogs, and considered breeding

Bella Romaine — Tue, 13 May 2008 17:37:34 GMT

For the most part, I'd agree on unwanted puppies, my husband seems to care about full bred, so he is an influence. To be honest, I would just adopt 2 more dogs. I guess, I just wanted a part of my dog, to stay with me, for my dog's kids to be with me. I was considering breeding, calling me a backyard puppy mill, when I have never even bred is a tad harsh. Even if I bred her, it was going to be once. Maybe I won't breed her, maybe I shouldn't, I was just asking for thoughts and opinions. I said I've had 3 litters in 15 years, I beleive. One was because we were stupid. One was a rescue, and one was a foster. The last time my personally owned dog who had puppies, was in 1994.

The insinuation, that I am backyard breeder is unfounded. My dog I have now, came from one, and I turned her in, I actaually called the news. I called my local paper, to point out she breeds every 6 months, and sells Christmas puppies for more than summer puppies. My dog was covered in fleas, the nasty breeder actually put "no fleas" in her ad. This was the 1st sogn she was a bad breeder. Who says "No fleas" The breeder my dog came from is a peice of crap, and I care. The breeder called the police on me, for turning her in.