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RE: Female Pregnant on first heat

Irishgirl — Sun, 07 Sep 2008 07:16:34 GMT

When we bred Irish setters my mama dog got pregnat the first time. The pups turned out great but we did have a still-born. There was only one and the rest were fine. We kept in contact with all from our first litter and the dogs didn't have problems and were some great hunting dogs. I should also say that though we did continue to breed her, we did not want her to get pregnate the first time. Our male got her before we even knew she was in heat even though we had been watching every day for it.

RE: Female Pregnant on first heat

Collie/GSD/Sheltie/Corgi/Russell_luvr — Sat, 23 Aug 2008 09:42:32 GMT

mommadog (8/23/2008)

[quote]Tycho (8/16/2008)

I honestly don't see how a test can make an animal healthy... it can determine whether or not the dog is healthy but can't make them anymore so.

Nor does the tests (OFA CERF) guarantee the dog or it's offspring will not have problems later one. CERF is done at 1 year, and every year, yet i know people who have had it done and pups were born with juvenile cataracts and the dog tested ended up having cataracts within 6 months of being cleared..These tests are all fine and great, but they do not guarantee diddly![/quote]
Of course not, but they help REDUCE it and THAT is very important in itself.

RE: Female Pregnant on first heat

Collie/GSD/Sheltie/Corgi/Russell_luvr — Sat, 23 Aug 2008 09:41:26 GMT

mommadog (8/23/2008)

[quote]Where on earth did you hear that? That is absolutely not true! There is also no required testing.. But of course a vet can deem them fit and healthy to breed. Most breeders breed on the first heat. And the dogs do just great. It is in their nature.!

Research, my dear. Three freakin' years of intense research, and many more years of intense research to come before I start breeding dogs. "Most breeders" are BYBs. Take my uncle for example, who wants to breed his dog in about a year with NO health testing or anything. My uncle's GSD may have been bred on her first heat before he got her and she is small compared to my GSD.
Somehow I feel that I am wasting my time talking with you.
Ah well, there will always be ignorant people and I just prefer to educate the open minded ones.
It just sickens me that the dog breeds suffer because of irresponsible breeders like you.

RE: Female Pregnant on first heat

rainsmom — Sat, 23 Aug 2008 06:04:40 GMT

mommadog (8/23/2008)

Breeding a dog on her first heat could stunt her growth. *shakes head sadly*
And no dog should be bred before it is 2 years old because the most important health tests can't be certified until then.

Where on earth did you hear that? That is absolutely not true! There is also no required testing.. But of course a vet can deem them fit and healthy to breed. Most breeders breed on the first heat. And the dogs do just great. It is in their nature.

Not all dogs come into heat at 6 months either, none of mine ever have. My cocker Hanna did not have her first heat until 16 months!! After that it was 11 months. I bred her at age 3 and 4. She is 8 next month and i had her spayed a couple of years ago. She had 3 litters total.

There are just to many myths about age of breeding etc. etc...I wish people would stop looking at anti-breeding sites and start asking vets!

where in the world are you getting your information!!!! no required testing???? umm in my breed there is hip and elbow dysplasia vwd thyroid eyes need to be cerf'd. no good breeder would breed a dog on her first heat! sure a vet can deem a dog healthy and capable of breeding but that doesnt mean you should breed! my old vet said I should have bred my first sheltie even though she is 18 inches which is 2 inches over the standard. she also has other faults per the sheltie standard so I got her spayed. I am so glad I did because she ended up having allergies and at 7 years old is already devolping arthritus. so if I would of bred her beacause my vet said I should I would of been bringing puppies in this world that could have had a lot of problems.

also you saying testing doesnt mean anything all I got to say is pudlegrl needs to respond to this because she is so much better at explaining genetics than I am!

as for the wolf comment I guess the books I have read and the shows I have watched on natgeo where wrong huh?

I just want to know since you seem to know everything. what breed do you breed? I take it you dont do any testing? do you follow the breed standard or do you just breed more pet pups while there are so many in the shelter dying?

RE: Female Pregnant on first heat

mommadog — Sat, 23 Aug 2008 03:52:27 GMT

Many people assume it takes a wolf longer to sexually mature than a dog, but we don't really find that to be true. Many wolves come into estrus their first winter (at about 10 months of age) and male pups may be fertile their first winter. So this seems to be on par with a dog of similar size. This has been documented both in captive wolves and wild ones.

RE: Female Pregnant on first heat

mommadog — Sat, 23 Aug 2008 03:46:32 GMT

Tycho (8/16/2008)

I honestly don't see how a test can make an animal healthy... it can determine whether or not the dog is healthy but can't make them anymore so.

RE: Female Pregnant on first heat

mommadog — Sat, 23 Aug 2008 03:41:48 GMT

[quote]Breeding a dog on her first heat could stunt her growth. *shakes head sadly*
And no dog should be bred before it is 2 years old because the most important health tests can't be certified until then.[/quote]

Where on earth did you hear that? That is absolutely not true! There is also no required testing.. But of course a vet can deem them fit and healthy to breed. Most breeders breed on the first heat. And the dogs do just great. It is in their nature.

Not all dogs come into heat at 6 months either, none of mine ever have. My cocker Hanna did not have her first heat until 16 months!! After that it was 11 months. I bred her at age 3 and 4. She is 8 next month and i had her spayed a couple of years ago. She had 3 litters total.

There are just to many myths about age of breeding etc. etc...I wish people would stop looking at anti-breeding sites and start asking vets!

RE: Female Pregnant on first heat

caninejan — Sun, 17 Aug 2008 10:14:13 GMT

rainsmom (8/17/2008)

PudelGrl (8/16/2008)

Collie/GSD/Sheltie/Corgi/Russell_luvr (8/16/2008)

I meant the health tests check to see that the animal is healthy enough to be able to contribute more health to the dog's breed. If the animal is not healthy enough, it should be spayed/neutered.
Breeding without health testing the dog and taking action according to the results is taking a risk on contributing unhealthiness to the breed.

Exactly, the key to breeding better dogs comes in pedgree evaluation. A pair of unhealthy parents is very unlikely to produce puppies with better health. The key is to recognize warning signs of genetic disease early so animals that are predisposed to it or carry a gene are eliminated from the breeding program. Otherwise, we are not doing our dogs a favor!

^^^very well said!!!^^^

also I would like to point out since people keep saying wolves mate during their first heat. wolves dont sexually mature until they are 2-3 years old and then if their are any genetic problems the pups wont live to pass on them genetics! also only the alpha pair is allowed to mate which are the strongest and healthiest wolves in the pack. With dogs we humans can pretty much make most of the pups live even if they are a medical mess. it is up to us to make sure the dogs are free of genetic problems so that they dont pass them along to future generations!!

RE: Female Pregnant on first heat

rainsmom — Sun, 17 Aug 2008 05:02:20 GMT

PudelGrl (8/16/2008)

Collie/GSD/Sheltie/Corgi/Russell_luvr (8/16/2008)

^^^very well said!!!^^^

RE: Female Pregnant on first heat

PudelGrl — Sat, 16 Aug 2008 22:45:05 GMT

Collie/GSD/Sheltie/Corgi/Russell_luvr (8/16/2008)

RE: Female Pregnant on first heat

caninejan — Sat, 16 Aug 2008 18:29:51 GMT

You should only breed intentionally to make the breed stronger, better!!! As far as accidents, well, that's another ballgame. People need to be reponsible.

RE: Female Pregnant on first heat

Collie/GSD/Sheltie/Corgi/Russell_luvr — Sat, 16 Aug 2008 18:15:44 GMT

RE: Female Pregnant on first heat

Tycho — Sat, 16 Aug 2008 18:11:37 GMT

I honestly don't see how a test can make an animal healthy... it can determine whether or not the dog is healthy but can't make them anymore so.

RE: Female Pregnant on first heat

Collie/GSD/Sheltie/Corgi/Russell_luvr — Sat, 16 Aug 2008 17:00:52 GMT

[quote]Tycho (8/16/2008)

My parents' female chihuahua ended up getting bred on her first heat. My siblings that live at home were not exactly sure why Amigo and Tela couldn't be together and one day my little sister let them out together and well the rest is nature.XD Tela did beautifully! She had 5 extremely healthy, and rather large puppies.

It's not completely horrible if it happens but it's best to wait for the 2nd or 3rd heats to make sure there are no abandonment issues due to the immaturity of the mother dog. In the wild, wolves, coyotes, and varies canines don't wait for the 2nd heat so most generally they'll be ok.[/quote]
True, but as I said health testing is extremely important and the OFA and CERF tests can't be certified until the dog is 2 years old. Breeding without health tests just makes the breed less healthy and is irresponsible.

RE: Female Pregnant on first heat

Tycho — Sat, 16 Aug 2008 15:47:01 GMT

RE: Female Pregnant on first heat

caninejan — Fri, 15 Aug 2008 18:01:48 GMT

Collie/GSD/Sheltie/Corgi/Russell_luvr (8/15/2008)

Bullies1904 (8/14/2008)

My girl got pregnant on her first heat... all 7 puppies were born healthy and big!!!

I think its all a myth, because in the wild, who is going to stop them from mating...

Breeding a dog on her first heat could stunt her growth. *shakes head sadly*
And no dog should be bred before it is 2 years old because the most important health tests can't be certified until then.

Agreed. Hey, mistakes happen, but you need to learn from them, not continue making the same mistakes 'cos it worked out the first time.

RE: Female Pregnant on first heat

Collie/GSD/Sheltie/Corgi/Russell_luvr — Fri, 15 Aug 2008 11:21:25 GMT

[quote]Bullies1904 (8/14/2008)

My girl got pregnant on her first heat... all 7 puppies were born healthy and big!!!

I think its all a myth, because in the wild, who is going to stop them from mating...[/quote]

Breeding a dog on her first heat could stunt her growth. *shakes head sadly*
And no dog should be bred before it is 2 years old because the most important health tests can't be certified until then.

RE: Female Pregnant on first heat

Bella Romaine — Fri, 09 May 2008 20:41:59 GMT

I was careless, and stupid enough to let a female get pregnant on her 1st heat. We kept one puppy, and gave 3 of the other 9 to friends. All 4 puppies I kept in touch with, are great dogs. I think what is more important than the age of the mom(though older Moms are better, and stronger) most important is that the puppy stayed with Mom long enough, I personally think 8-9 weeks with mom, but I know others think less. I think the care after birth, is more important than the Moms age. And P.S, my dog, who had puppies on her 1st heat, was the best Mother, and dog I have ever known, hands down.

RondaLee

RE: Female Pregnant on first heat

amjon — Fri, 15 Jun 2007 09:40:42 GMT

I wouldn't worry about the health of your pup for this reason, but I would because someone that bred on the first heat probably didn't do the required health tesing. I am not sure of the breed, but there are several health problems that should be tested for in most breeds (knees, hips, eyes, ears). It does drain the mother and she may be too immature to properly care for pups (think of a teenage mother).

[quote]Mutt Luv1212 (9/7/2006)

I was just wonderingwhat happenes when a female gets pregnant on her first does it makenot very heathly pups or is it more that it is draining on the mom. I dont have a pregnant female that got pregnant on her first heat but I got a pup from one that did just wanting to know if he might not be that healthy of a not when he gets older.

Thanks a lot I have always wanted to know[/quote]ld

RE: Female Pregnant on first heat

huskies r perfect — Sat, 27 Jan 2007 13:20:37 GMT

Siesi22 (1/27/2007)

Dear mam reading this,

Yes! Welcome to Dog channel

Seisi, this was back from September!

RE: Female Pregnant on first heat

PudelGrl — Sat, 27 Jan 2007 13:19:25 GMT

The main reason is that its way to draining on the mother, she is often too small and immature to give birth and its much harder and riskier on her health.

However, as for the puppy's health, several health tests required for the parents have to be done at 2 years of age or older to get an accurate result. So a female dog having a litter at a young age could indirectly have an effect on health if she was in fact suffering from a genetic health problem not yet identified.

RE: Female Pregnant on first heat

Siesi22 — Sat, 27 Jan 2007 13:07:37 GMT

Dear mam reading this,

Yes! Welcome to Dog channel

Female Pregnant on first heat

Mutt Luv1212 — Thu, 07 Sep 2006 23:09:26 GMT

I was just wondering what happenes when a female gets pregnant on her first does it make not very heathly pups or is it more that it is draining on the mom. I dont have a pregnant female that got pregnant on her first heat but I got a pup from one that did just wanting to know if he might not be that healthy of a not when he gets older.

Thanks a lot I have always wanted to know